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| Many Christians have doubts about trying yoga because they've been told it's bad by thier mentors (pastors, ministers, preachers...). I believe it's mainly the fundamentalists and evangelicals that object the most. Some of what they say is true, at least in terms of the goals and methods, but often their understanding is incomplete. They would also most likely take the position that Christianity is the only route to divine salvation, and that any other kind of apparently religious practices are incompatible.
Well, okay, who is to argue with them, if that is what they think, fine. No one is saying that yoga is for everyone. It's not. Yoga is for those who feel attracted to it's philosophy, aims and methods. There is no question of trying to convert anyone.
However, it's also a mistake to say that yoga is incompatible with other religious contexts outside Hinduism. Usually the problem is that no distinction is made between the different paths of yoga:
Karma, Bhakti, Raja (includes meditation and Hatha) and Jnana yogas. In the context of this discussion, Bhakti or devotion is the most important, because Christian doctrine seems to insist that Jesus is the one and only correct object of worship and devotion, and any other is unacceptable. How unfortuate for all the teeming billions who never heard of Jesus or were born in non-Christian countries.
In yoga, devotion is an important aspect of the overall set of practices. However, one may hold as one's object of worship and devotion any one of the "faces of God" to which one feels most attracted, with which there is the most identification. Therefore if one wishes to project one's devotion toward Jesus, then that is perfectly acceptable. The Absolute, or Supreme, is known as Brahaman, and is understood to be the source of all, but unknowable until one reaches the highest stage in the progression of practice, which culminates in Jnana yoga, the path of philosophical inquiry.
Because we exist on a dulaistic plane, people require something to which they can attach and direct their mental and sense faculties, a divine symbol if you will, to lead the aspirant in the direction of the Absolute. This is the meaning and purpose of the various deities, who are not mistaken for the ultimate One, but are merely faces of God we can relate to, whose virtues we aspire to, whose qualities help us to attain the final goal. They are rather like archetypes, psychic companions and protectors on the spiritual journey.
Therefore one can practice yoga and remain Christian, perhaps in the truest sense. Personally, I feel that I never understood Christinity properly until I studied and trained in yoga. All religions have exoteric or outer and esoteric or inner meanings and traditions. Judaism and Christianity no less than Islam and Hinduism. The different aspects or paths are for people who are at differents stages of their personal spiritual development. As a previous poster mentioned, Christianity has it's own meditation and ascetic traditions. However, one can also practice Hatha yoga with Christ as one's Ishta Devata, and even use a favorite Christian phrase, prayer or saying as one's mantra if practicing japa meditation. Study a little more, look into the yamas and niyamas, and you'll see there are many similarities and much common ground between all the major religions and yoga.
Fundamentalists of all stripes tend to emphasise the differences and proclaim their paths as the exclusive right way, and the others as false. That is simply the nature of religion as a political program, not as a spiritual program, in a dualistic world.
Yoga says, "the paths are many but the truth is one." The bottom line is, do what you feel like doing, as long as it helps you move toward love, truth, wisdom and justice.
Remember there are no monolithic religious entities. Christians cannot all agree as to the difinitive interpretation of Jesus' teachings. Same for the other religions. Witness the many divisions and sects in the major world religions, and all the minor religions. Philosophy and religion are really in constant historical flux. It is only the mystical strands in all faiths which assert the common threads among them, and who seek to understand and aid each other, to build bridges, not walls.
Edited by sivaram 2005-02-21 11:04 PM
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| Thanks for the insights David.
I was fairly confused when I read this information from Shiva Rea a few months ago.
To practice Ishvara pranidhana, we must first start with our own intimate connection to the universe. In yoga, this is referred to as your Ishta-Devata. The yogic concept of Ishta-Devata recognizes that we each have our own, personal relationship with and taste of the Divine and that this serves as a powerful means of yoga (unification) for us. Traditionally, many sadhus (monks) in India have revered the god Shiva in his role as the archetypal yogi. Many other Indians revere Vishnu, especially in his incarnations as Rama or Krishna. Still others are drawn to female manifestations of divinity, like Lakshmi or Kali or Durga. But Sri T. Krishnamacharya, probably the most influential figure in the spread of yoga to the West, advocated that Western yoga practitioners use their own language, imagery, and names of the sacred to deepen their connection to Ishvara.
Shiva Rea
http://www.yogajournal.com/wisdom/776_1.cfm
Your explaination helped clear it up in my mind.
Edited by MrD 2005-02-22 7:55 PM
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| Thanks Sivaram for encapsulating your understanding of the major religions and the common thread that does tie them. Very well written.
I recently saw a TV program (I think it was Pat Robert's channel) where they were having a "panel discussion" on various religions and one of the panelists with real impressive credentials (I think he had a PhD in divinity from a leading university) said that the chanting of Om activates demons and propitiates Satan. I think I switched the channel at that moment.
I was trying to understand the fundamentalist viewpoint with an open mind but found myself getting genuinely aggravated. Three cheers to the TV remote control. |
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| Dear MrD:
While NOT objecting other aspects of your post above, and other related post, I wish to make the following Correction, if that is applicable at all:
Ishvarapranidhan in Patanjali means exactly as follows. Patanjali is a Sciece of Yoga (yogashaastra) and it gives a method for liberation, which can be practiced by any one (meaning ANY Body).
Ishvara is first defined in the Patanjali. I am not giving that meaning. That meaning does not indicate different Deities, it only means ONE.
Ishvarapranidhan in Patanjali does NOT mean worshipping different deities (I am not agains worshipping different deities, but I am stating what it means in Patanjali). It means what is given next, tasya vaachakah pranavah, tadjappastadarthabhaavanam. Ishvarapranidhan in Patanjali means Repetition of OM (and not other words) and while remembering the meaning of OM as audible representation of God. This is the Ishavrapranidhan.
Now, those who are NOT interested in Ishvarapranidhan, he gives other methods which follow.
Peace
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
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Location: A Blue State |
Dear Brother Neel,
Is Ishwara pranidanadua exclusively limited to the repetition of Om? I had thought of
it as devotion to god in a general sense, one of which is expressed as you mention
"tasya vachakah pranavaha" etc, that the sound of Om (Pranava) is a representation of god
upon which we can reflect (ie by repetition of the sound Om). |
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| Dear Brother Guy:
No, IshvaraPranidhaana in general means surrender to the Ishvara, that is devotion. But, in the Patanjali Yogasutras it means the repetition of OM as I wrote above. Patanjali Yoga Sutras is a scientific text and it defines all the terminology which is necessary for that text. I mean Mostly.
therefore in patanjali the Ishvarapranidhana is described as follows;
after telling the two Samadhis first time, he says the ones with STrong Intention will achieve it quicker. Then, he says that this can also be achieved by Ishvarapranidhana. And, then states:
What Ishvara means , and What is to be done with Ishvara in the context of the Asamprajnata samadhi.
Later, he knows some persons need other method than Ishvara Pranidhana, so he gives Single Pointed Ness, and then gives methods for it, etc. etc.
Neel Kulkarni
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| It's possible to distinguish roughly between Bhakti, religious devotion with emotional feeling, and Ishwara Pranidhan as in Patanjali II:32 under Niyama: "devotion to the Lord".
This is understood as self-surrender to the will of God, ie. one turns one's life and will over to Ishvara.
The sutras quoted by Neel, 1:27-28 state that "Ishwara is expressed by OM" (pranava); and the method of "constant repetition of OM and meditation on it's meaning" to reach Samadhi.
Ishvara is defined in the preceding sutras (1:24-27) thus:
24. Untouched by taints of karma or their fruits or their stocks is the Lord, who is a special kind of Purusa
25.In whom the seed of omniscience becomes transcendent
26.The teacher of the first teachers because not particularized by time
27.Of him the expression in Pranava (OM)
28. Repetition of it and meditation on its meaning
29. From that, realization of the separate consciousness, and absence of obstacles
etc...
Sutra II:45 reiterates "From devotion to the Lord, perfection in Samadhi."
Pranava means: perfectly he is worshipped.
Ever wonder about the similarity between OM and AMEN ?
Ishvara manifests in OM. OM is "shabda-Brahman," the sound-body of God, the first thought-vibration before time and space. It is the highest form of God, before Brahman, which the human mind can grasp conceptually. But this is still to abstract for the vast majority of people, who need something with qualities they can relate to. Therefore, we have the multitude of lesser deities.
So Bhakti does not really contradict Ishvara Pranidhan, it's only a personal choice of symbolism leading toward higher knowledge.
Edited by sivaram 2005-02-23 10:56 PM
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| Dear Bay Guy and Shivaram:
I wish to make the following comments, take them as sporitvely as possible.
a) Bhakti does not mean Religious Devotion only.
b) Patanjali States: yathaabhimatadhyaanaadvaa = One can meditate on anything which one feels to be appropriate.
c) Pranava means: prakarshena nooyate iti: That means the one by which (God) is properly praised.
d) Patanjali: svaadhyaat ishtadevata samprayogah: ishta devata is a Deity.
Neel Kulkarni
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| Right, no implication that meditation on OM is the only method. One can use other methods one finds attractive. But meditation on Pranavah is highly regarded as a safe and sure method, is it not? Is it not also said that in the end only God's grace will lead to the final goal / asamprajnata samadhi? And in the context of this thread, it's surely suitable for Christians, who also believe in God's grace...
Edited by sivaram 2005-02-23 11:46 PM
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| Dear Shivaram:
Are you refering to Patanjali re: God's Grace is must for Asamprajnata Samadhi? (the later is definitely a word from Patanjali)
Patanjali Yoga Sutras were written after Gautam Buddha, but they comprehend (see the previous posts on this) entire knowledge of Advaita Vendant for Practice. Advaita Vedanta is several thousand years ago before Jesus Christ incarnated. He himself never said NOT to follow Vedas. (And, he can never and never could have and never would have Said so.) So, I am not understanding what is going on as for Christian VS Yoga in this bulletin board. The same can happen with Muslim Vs Yoga, Jewish Vs Yoga, etc. I am intrigued.
Neel Kulkarni
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| kulkarn:
Are you refering to Patanjali re: God's Grace is must for Asamprajnata Samadhi? (the later is definitely a word from Patanjali)
No, and when I refer to him I’ll usually try to follow the practice of providing a citation and support. The Yoga Sutra is a terse outline, and difficult to understand without the commentaries provided by Vyasa and others, and one's own teachers. So I am going outside the text when I make the claim that God's grace is necessary, as this is the teaching in my tradition. I’ve read and heard this many times, although referring to Asamprajnata Samadhi may not be technically correct, and should perhaps be just Samadhi, without reference to that stage.
Vyasa’s (yes, obviously it’s not the same Vyasa as the author of the Mahabharata) commentary on Sutra 1:23
Or by special devotion to the Lord (to reach Samadhi)
says this: “As a result of the special devotion which is bhakti (love of God) the Lord bends down to him and rewards him according to what he has meditated on. If the yogin has meditated on it, the attainment of samadhi and its fruit is near at hand.”
Neel, what’s your feeling on this?
kulkarn:
Patanjali Yoga Sutras were written after Gautam Buddha, but they comprehend (see the previous posts on this) entire knowledge of Advaita Vendant for Practice. Advaita Vedanta is several thousand years ago before Jesus Christ incarnated. He himself never said NOT to follow Vedas. (And, he can never and never could have and never would have Said so.)
To my knowledge no one has asserted anything to this effect regarding Jesus. It’s those who preach in his name who are speaking to others against yoga, such as that it’s a form of demonic posession and other such ridiculous things.
kulkarn:
So, I am not understanding what is going on as for Christian VS Yoga in this bulletin board. The same can happen with Muslim Vs Yoga, Jewish Vs Yoga, etc. I am intrigued.
Me too. It’s an intriguing question that won't seem to go away. It comes up often on this forum, also among prospective students here in Singapore, and in the US (where I’m from); so it's something I‘ve been wishing to address for some time, and now I have the time to get into it.
While it certainly does apply to other religions it's the Christians in particular who bring theie objections, and not the others.
Technical questions regarding Patanjali aside, my feeling is that it’s adequate to refer to the concept of Bhakti in dealing with this topic, without resorting to Patanjali. However, it seems to me that Patanjali and his commentators would support the argument as well.
Peace
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| Dear Shivaram:
Please move to the other forum.
thanks
neel kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hot Yogi wrote: I recently saw a TV program (I think it was Pat Robert's channel) where they were having a "panel discussion" on various religions and one of the panelists with real impressive credentials (I think he had a PhD in divinity from a leading university) said that the chanting of Om activates demons and propitiates Satan. I think I switched the channel at that moment. Cyndi is Rolling on the Floor.... No wonder my Baptist Father and Brother is having such a hard time dealing with my Hindu husband...is that what they are saying these days???? I'll be sure NOT to wear my Om necklace in front of them...they might freak out and start chanting Bible scriptures to me. I started to go visit my Father after I visited the Temple yesterday...I guess all that Tika on my head would have made them pass out...geez, what will they think of next. I guess they'll be saying the anti-christ is from India or something wierd like that. |
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| Cyndi - 2005-03-01 1:11 PM
Hot Yogi wrote: I recently saw a TV program (I think it was Pat Robert's channel) where they were having a "panel discussion" on various religions and one of the panelists with real impressive credentials (I think he had a PhD in divinity from a leading university) said that the chanting of Om activates demons and propitiates Satan.... I guess they'll be saying the anti-christ is from India or something wierd like that.
LOL. Good story, HY... One nice thing about being an expat, I get to miss out on those kinds of shows when channel surfing! Perhaps they look at Siva (blue skin, trident resembling a pitchfork) and project the devil.... I wonder if that's possibly historically/culturally conditioned? Then there's Kali... Oh, my... On the outside, the differences often seem to boil down to aesthetics. If only we could just manage to get past appearances, and appreciate the richness of cultural diversity...
Edited by sivaram 2005-02-28 12:34 AM
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| Does anyone have good suggestions for phrases, prayers, words, etc... which a Christian might use in mantra meditation? ie I and my Father are One, The Lord is My Shepherd, etc... |
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| The other day I read a bumper sticker in Spanish that said "O Senior es mi Pastor. No mi faltara."
The Lord is my Shepherd, I shall not falter (or fail) Much better than I shall not want (hunger)
I would suggest going to some hymns for mantras.
In Christ there is no East or West, Abide with me. God is Love, God moves in Mysterous ways, Amazing Grace, In this area the possibilities are huge.
If you prounance OM as three syllables, AHH OM, then the simple phrase "I Am" can be substituted.
Lamb of God.
An Anglican chant album that I bought recently repeats these phrases a lot.
In the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost
As it was in the beginning, it is now, worlds without end.
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| YogaAlternatives.com is a good place to find Christian meditations for your yoga practice.
We are brand new, but will be offering dvds, meditation cds, and soon to come will be a book on biblically sound yoga.
Some meditations mantras we use are "Yahweh" meaning Jesus, "Maranatha" (inhale-MA- exhale-RA- inhale-NA- exhale-THA) which means "Come Lord", or just focus on the word "Love" and the God of love will be with you.
Focus on breathing in God's love, and breathing out worldly tension.
Peace be with you.
Krystie
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| There's a site on the topic: Can Christians Practice Yoga?. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | You know what?? YES, Christians can practice yoga...it will make them better Christians. It will make them kinder, more compassionate, more tolerant and most importantly...they'll stop killing deers and putting their mounted heads in their offices at their churches!!
I'm sorry, I just had to say that because at my Father's funeral, I spent several hours in a Christian church. I was shocked to see the attitudes and the dead animals on the staff walls in their offices. It was too much and I felt like it was so in conflict with what spirituality and religion should bee!! |
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| Everyone can practice yoga and everyone can benefit from being healthier, more focused, more relaxed, more integrated, better aligned, breathe better, etc etc etc.
Whatever your belief system, including the absence of belief, you can practice yoga and receive the benefits. Your actions are what matter, not what words you repeat in your head or which myths or paradigms you prefer.
Results in yoga are the result of practice, not any particular belief. The practice transcends both time and culture because it is all about your unique self in the unique present moment. Yoga is getting your mind, your body, your energy and your environment in tune with each other. This has nothing to do with any religion or lack thereof.
I think (but am not sure) that this even applies to people who hang dead animal parts on their walls for decoration.
Edited by jimg 2009-01-20 8:13 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Well, that is true...and eventually, the dead animals would really start to bother a yogi...in the advanced stages of the practice of course,  Yoga is a process Jim,  |
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| Cyndi - 2009-01-20 5:22 PM
Yoga is a process Jim,
Actually, both consciousness and life itself are processes. Is yoga therefore a mirror in miniature of a greater reality?
Edited by jimg 2009-01-21 1:01 AM
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Pleaseeeee don't get me started....have you not read the first couple of pages of this thread...dated back 3 years ago, Jim... |
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| Cyndi, I don't know why you'd be so shocked to see dead animals on the walls of a Christian church--they have a dead guy on a cross too. AND, you're in the mountains--them animals is fine eat'in. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | okay smart ass, |
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Can Christians practice yoga?
