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| Hey folks,
here comes the greenhorn again. 
Last night on Fit TV I saw a nice documentation about Ashtanga Yoga and all the celebrities that attended the workshop during 9/11.
My question, as I'm working the Iyengar style the focus is so much on alignment and postures, do the other styles do that at all? During the class on TV I saw some postures my teacher would cry over. Is it just a totally different approach? Is it a different understanding of the asanas? Is there corrections as to the joints and alignment of the body whatsoever?
Can the experts or the ones that tried a lot of styles answer my question?
Take care
Babsi |
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| Being "expert" or trying these forms of hatha yoga is irrelevant. 
Ashtanga and Iyengar are from the same lineage, as is Viniyoga.
Stick with Iyengar yoga for a while yet. What you are learning will provide you with a fantastic base in form and alignment that will permit you (later) to move from style to style, family to family -- if you chose to do so -- with safety. Once you have Iyengar's alignment in your muscle memory, you could move through the faster moving practices with far less fear of injury. I always, to the point of being annoying, stress that an Iyengar or Anusara background gives you such a foundation that everyone should be required to begin with one of these traditions for at least 2 years if not longer.
That is a horrible show in that it has more people swayed by the so-called "star" quality of the name vs. anything to do with the yoga itself. Too many people who shouldn't be allowed to throw themselves into that Practice do so because they saw it on TV. They end up injured, don't lose the weight they thought the magic yoga pill would cause, or don't meet the stars (yup) they vaguely thought would be in their home-town studio, and move on to the next fad.
All too frequently the attitude of an Ashtanga class is "Nike." In my opinion the best and safest teachers come to Ashtanga with another yoga background. My own most effective teachers had Iyengar backgrounds. I had one with a Sivananda background, but that frequently contradicted how the Ashtanga/Iyengar/Viniyoga tradition uses the spine, so it was difficult for me to "click" with that. Plus, Sivananda doesn't (again, in my opinion) have the same concerns with alignment.
So wait before moving into someting like Ashtanga. Give yourself the gift of an excellent foundation and understanding of the whys and wherefores of hatha yoga that Iyengar coffers. With Iyengar and/or Anusara, you couldn't be doing better for yourself as a beginning.
I apologize for any typos. I'm typing this at 5:00 am and don't have my glasses on.
Namasté,
Christine |
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| I agree w/ Christine 100%! I've only been at this "yoga thing" for 3 years, but I started out w/ 2 years of level 1 Beggining Iyengars. In the last 12 months I've branched out to Power Yoga, Ashtanga and "regular" Hatha/Vinyasa classes. My "performance" in each of those classes has been greatly improved by my Iyengar training.
In Sept, I'm going back to my first teacher to start Level 2 Beginner Iyengar classes - and I can't wait!
Good luck
Melissa
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| Christine,
when you write that iyengar and anusara are from the same school what exactly is the difference? I'm planning to leave the loud and over-a/c'ed gym with its iyengar-for-dummies class and join the ashram instead, were they teach anusara style (I guess). What do I have to expect there, what are the changes?
Thank you
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| Afroyogi, I didn't say they were from the same school, but stemmed from the same tradition. I probably should have said "similar" because that is contra-doctrine. John Friend had a long Iyengar background that staid him well. Naturally our histories color our teaching and practices, right? But there are differences.
Aren't you in S. Africa? I would be astonished but very pleased to find Anusara had made it that far. So far, it has only made small inroads into the European commnity, so S. Africa? That would be cool. As you probably figure, I would suggest you figure out what the ashram actually offers in terms of all the eight limbs of yoga before you throw your classes over for the unknown. Sure, get out of the gym, but take it in stages, OK? Start with a studio, an apprenticeship, then head for the ashram once you know what they're following and offering.
However, to answer your question, Anusara follows a tantric path. Now before you western type get your undies all bunched up and make fools about yourselves spouting off about tantra = sex, read and learn more about what tantra is, Ok? Anusara follows the tantric approach in that (hugely and grossly simplified) we all start from a place of God and perfection, vs. needing to be changed/purified/"fixed" whatever to find and be one with the divine and samadhi. We are already divine and can move from that point in our hearts and souls.
In other words and as far as the hatha element goes, (keeping in mind these are my opinions and experience and do not necessarily reflect those of anyone else in the world) where sometimes in an Iyengar class you're belted/strapped/tied/propped into a pose until you're as close the teacher can get you to it and therefore "right", Anusara will help you in very similar ways, but until your body says, "this is right for me right now." There is no "wrong" unless it is someone forcing themselves to their detriment.
Anusara celebrates. Someone's "yoga moment" where they slip a little further into an asana. Where they kick up into handstand for the first time, or they push up into a backbend -- or touch their toes with proper alignment. We laugh, moan, groan, clap, cheer, and sometimes have tears with each other. Anusara has a side effect of creating a community where (in my experience) Iyengar is done in sometimes militaristic silence. In Anusara, it is pretty difficult to feel alone or somehow less because you're not doing something at a certain level. It is where and what it is and that's just perfectly OK.
Both Iyengar and Anusara focus strongly on aligning the body for more freedom of movement and of course, safety within that movement. Sometimes that safety isn't necessarily physical, either, in Anusara. Sometimes alignment can create releases where someone moves into an emotional area where the ease of alignment permits their minds to deal with something buried rather deeply. I digress.
In Anusara, this focus is taken further, where we frequently focus on dealing with injuries and special conditions. It is somewhat of a growing speciality found in Anusara. Where Iyengar has strong roots in what's come to be called therapeutic yoga, it seems to have become somewhat of a side line in that tradition these days. Sure, you see Yoga for pregnancy and post preggy, breast cancer, and occasionally something else special, or of course, gentle classes, but more and more Anusara studios works with specific conditions such as Parkinson's, MS, MD, Stroke, hip replacements, you name it.
Not that you would be studying this yourself, but I mention it to give you an idea of the depth of study on physiology, anatomy, biomechanics, the modifications for any oddity that comes along, and the "yoga party tricks" that teach you how a small change in arm integration or position can make a whole pose click into ease. And will relieve pain or discomfort at the same time. With more and more people coming to yoga due to injury, illness or recovery therefrom, this knowledge in a teacher becomes more and more important. I can't tell you how many times my co-Ashtanga teachers send someone to me because a new student shows up whose doctor has suggested they "do yoga" but didn't know enough to tell them what yoga they should be doing. Ashtanga is not my recommendation for injury or illness recovery! :LOL
Like Iyengar, the certification process is rigorous. John Friend approves each and every affiliated and certified teacher. You need 100 hours with him personally, and a gudzillion hours of time with other affiliated or certified Anusara teachers. You must submit recommendations from your teachers, (or they must), a 1 hour video of yourself teaching a real class, and take what has grown to be a 19 page test. Two of the questions (which kind of make me laugh in their simplicity) are to summarize the Gita and the Pradapika!
The languaging is different but very similar. Where Iyengar might talk about an inner rotation, Anusara will talk about a spiral. The "system" of loops and spirals, however, works in every single pose. As students progress, it's possible to say, "Suzie-Q, more inner spiral" and the student will know exactly what action is necessary to improve the alignment and therefore ease in the pose. Since this cuts down on incessent teacher yammering, I'm all for that! The word "Kidneys" causes a student to draw their lower abs in, (Uddiyana bandha), tuck their tail a little, and fill out their mid back rather than sinking/arching into it. Imagine cutting out all that instruction with one word!
I guess, Afroyogi, with all this yammering, Anusara can just be (more) fun. I never break a sweat or get into my meditative "zone" like I do with my Anusara practice (since it's always led and always different), but it is fabulous "theory" for my faster moving practices. Since like Iyengar you can work incredibly hard just isolating a little muscle like the pectinius or satorius, I won't say it's easy yoga -- if you're following instruction! (You know what I mean?) You could look at it as an extension of your Iyengar training, or Iyengar on prozac where it's alllllll good. Essentially, and what I love, is that Anusara helps you find the good in yourself and your practice and celebrates that with you.
I don't know if this helps, but at this time of the morning? This is what you get.
Christine |
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| Thanx Christine for your very informative and long answer. If you say that Anusara hardly made it to Europe I think you're right and it's not yet reached the African shores. Sometimes these guys are quick though. I know that the swami of the ashram is indeed a german so me might know about anusara. Anyways, my Iyengar teacher in the gym is also giving classes in the ashram and he told me that they do a softer version of yoga there. Once I heard that Anusara is softer than Iyengar so I figured it might be it. I have to ask I guess.
I don't think that I have to know more about the ashram since the yoga and meditation courses are for everybody and they're free or almost free. The swamis never try to talk you into joining hinduism or something.
BTW of course I'll stick with the Iyengar in the gym, I'm on a 3 years contract so why shouldn't I use it accordingly. But still I have the feeling that I should spread my yoga interests to other places as well, places were I can enjoy the yoga in a better atmosphere and learn other ways. I'm not only looking for physically more challenging yoga (wanna go back to Bikram) but also I feel like I'm ready to go into the spiritual side as well.
Thx again
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| I agree about staying with the contract. It's paid for, after all!
Your swami is probably not going to be familiar with Anusara, as at this point, the only folks who might have experienced it would be those travelling to the US. It's still quite rare. John Friend is making a European tour this year, I think. I could be wrong and it might be '05.
Anyway, given your statement about wanting a bit more out of your yoga, (huge growth moment, BTW! Congrats!) Anusara would be a logical step from Iyengar. So would be your interest in exploring more what the ashram has to offer.
For the sake of those browsing, who might still have a little confusion about yoga and religion, please know that those serious about yoga might never have anything to do with the Hindu faith. Even those known as enlightened or "aware" may not consider themselves Hindu. However, the Hindu dieties are convenient, in that they represent universal energies. Usually those of creation/destruction, with the Divine wearing a different face or name to represent that energy. This is how the One God can have so many names. Bhrama, Siva, Shakti, etc. Yoga itself does not recognize any given faith in that yoga does not acknowledge or recognize a God figure separate from the human being. (non-dualism). It is the human who puts a face on God, creating that separatism that causes suffering, ... stop me. That's part of the tantric viewpoint again, for the record.
Anyway, I could give you some interesting titles if you wanted. It sounds like you're already begining to seek and explore on your own. This is a huge deal, Afroyogi. Quite different than that person who first presented himself here.
Christine |
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| Thx Christine,
of course I'm different now. When I first started yoga it was coz I was bored and I was looking for a funny way to loose some weight. So I joined a private teacher who gives lessons to small groups in our suburb's boy scout hall. It was not satisfying at all but I noticed immedietly that there is somethinga bout yoga I liked very much. Then some friends took me to bikram, we tried a cheap beginners option. 5 x yoga for 50 Rand (that's like 6 $) and loved it. Stupid thing though we are all living at the complete other side of town and it's a long treck (1 - 1,5 hours) to the studio every time. Also it was way too expensive. Then came the option to join the gym for an affordable fee and only there I learnt more about real yoga. I was hooked already so it was easy to fall for it completely.
See, that's why my interest in yoga is only growing slowly and a long time after I joined in. I noticed that not only my body but my mind became "better" through it. Only now I'm starting to learn more and see my mistakes of the past. Looks like I'm going to start all over once I'm back.
It was good that you wrote about yoga and religion here. It was probably quite dangerous that I wrote about yoga and the ashram in one sentence without stressing that this has nothing to do with some sects or weird religions. I know that lots of people are afraid of yoga or have a wrong image of it because of that. So, please let me second your words:
It may be true that most of yoga practitioners (at least in india) are hindu as well but that's no wonder. Most tennis players in the western world are christians, the one doesn't have anything to do with the other. Me, I'm not religious at all and I don't fear to visit the ashram. Most people that go in and out there look quite normal, only the swami goes in orange most of the time. I just learned that historically the ashram was no religious place but more like a hostel, belonging to a monastery and managed by monks. That's it. This place is full of love and good energy and I love to go there and just hang around. I don't know if that is meditation but if not there were else shall I learn it.
No disrespect, but I'm using the ashram simply as a tool, joined the "meditation for beginnners" course once and will try some yoga classes in the near future. Again: YOGA IS NO THREAT FOR ANYONES BELIEFS OR FOR CHRITIANITY ITSELF!!! Got it everybody?
At last let me say, Christine you must not be afraid that I'm turning into a real earnest yogi now, my intend to stay a silly, fat, white yoga clown is strong. And strong is the child in me that just wants to play. And weak is my discipline and my muscles. I hope you can forgive me being a slow grower.
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| I wanted to add that there seems to be a logical order to most yoga practitioners experiences. When one begins to calm the mind by practicing physical yoga (due to the focus that is naturally required to perform the poses), one begins to uncover the ultimate nature of mind. We feel that our lives begin to transform in a positive way (all aspects of our lives) and this leads to a natural yearning to learn more about the mind. This is exactly what the "founders" of yoga intended for it to do. To open the physical channels in our bodies so that we might be able to work with our minds more efficiently. It seems that meditation is the next order in the sequence of events that will happen to anyone who practices physical yoga with a bit of discipline and diligence.
Meditation is basically yoga of the mind and a way to find the union between our minds and the real nature of our minds (non-dualism). At first meditation requires perseverence simply to quiet the thoughts that are so random and rampant in our beings on this earth. Later we recognize that the calming effects of meditation on our minds translate into more calm moments in our lives and the ability to be in those moments with compassion and joy. It is said that meditation masters can perform an entire meditation in the time that is taken from putting their foot in a saddle stirrup to then mounting the saddle.
It seems that most beings make life much too complicated and thus cause suffering for themselves and others. This is where meditation can help immensely.
Congratulations, Afroyogi, on moving it to a higher level!! 
Namaste |
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| Hmmm...
I have to put this out there. Just for those who have not experienced the progression of events that redtail has described. The peace and quiet moments.
I've been practicing for years and years. I wish I could jump in here and shout "Yeah! That's right!" but I cannot. I've never experienced those moments of calm he describes. I've never had a immobile moment of meditation that wasn't twitching and sometimes painful from back spasms. I've never felt that "inner peace," calm and relaxation so many not only repeatedly find, but start spouting off about after their very first practice.
I kind of figured it was one of those things people felt by the power of suggestion like getting a rush from vitamins. Or that mythical endorphin rush (remember, I'm talking about me) people talk about from running. You know. The media says yoga will do this or that, give you this or that, make you this or that, so someone tries yoga and Boom! The magic yoga pill made them a better person. {snort}
I am saying this because for years I thought I must be doing something wrong in my practice, or that I was missing some great unspoken point. Kind of like, "pay attention to your body." But what the heck does that Mean!?.
Finally, over the years, I quit worrying about it. I figured that I feel wonderful while I'm moving and stretching. When I'm done, I just go on about my day. No great(er) energy, no quiet core of yoga-induced peace, no euphoria from some physical release. I just continue on my way. I try to be a good person and take my yoga with me off the mat. But what does that mean? We only know what we here in the western world think yogin should be like. "Should" is a very bad, judgemental word.
I think people are blessed to experience what redtail describes. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I do question these people that have instant accomplishment or development along these lines. Perhaps everyone else practicing yoga is more in tune that I? Could be.
I can now tell you that I've had glimpses of what this might be like. My Ashtanga practice is such that I look up and wonder sometimes where the time has gone, or where I am. That type of focus only occurs for me in motion. I cannot imagine what it must be like to take that into real life. (It must be difficult to drive.)
Nonetheless, if others out there are not experiencing the progression of events redtail describes, you're not alone. You're probably not doing yoga wrong, you're probably not missing a point. You're probably just not on that particular path, as I have decided I must not be.
But where the heck could I be going!?
Christine |
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| Christine, wow, that was unbelievably honest! Maybe it's time now for the stupid silly beginner to teach the wise guru Christine a lesson! ....................... Noooo, not really but please allow me to ask you one question:
When I read your postings on the board I immedietely notice that you are a yogini of remarkable knowledge about all things yoga related.I guess you helped a lot of people (incl. me) a big deal with their troubles and Bruce even calls you his guru.
Maybe you are keeping your brain busy too much with all the theories of yoga and human body functions, instead of just diving into the practice, no matter what's it about, which muscle groups are working, what it does to your joints and stuff.
Maybe you should (oh, sorry, the bad word) throw all that intellectual ballast over board and just enjoy the practice.
I think that's why so many people have these wonderful experiences with yoga, even total beginners who are not supposed to, coz the know so little 
Another reason why you are not getting into "the zone" is maybe that you are a "type A" person like you once admitted yourself. You're seeking for perfection, you don't want to be, you want to be good! You are not able to enjoy laziness and just do nothing. I don't know jack about yoga but have you ever asked yourself if your mindset is right for yoga?
I didn't want to be disrespectful but something is wrong when even I, with all my limitations, nervousness, lots of body fat, stiff joints and weak muscles am able to enjoy yoga, gain lots of benefits from it and forget about the outside world during practice and you can't.
Again, no bad feelings Chris, and I'm not trying to play the guru/therapist here but I guess that sometimes one needs to see things from a different perspective. So please feel free to look at yoga through my eyes, through the eyes of a beginner who wants to stay a beginner and has no intention to ever become a great and wise yogi. A slacker on a full hedonistic quest for best possible relaxation. Try to see yoga through the eyes of an idiot and get wise......... maybe............
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| Sometimes, no very often I forget the most important parts. Christine, you wrote that it must be difficult to drive during those experiences. No it ain't! These moments are like meditation I guess. Not that I am able to meditate when I'm sitting in the course but I guess I had glimpses of meditation during iyengar class, especially when not moving (I'm not a type A though). Also, thinking about it, the closest I ever came to meditation was on my motorcycle. Not on a straight piece of highway, daydreaming but on curved, twisted mountain roads at night time. And I have to tell you it just feels great and it is neither difficult nor dangerous. Like in meditation, you are very aware of your surroundings, completely focused on just two things - your bike and your body and how they work together. After all we're not talking about trance here but about being centered, concentrated and completely lost in the action. Don't tell me you're not able to reach a condition like that and never experienced those moments please.
Again, don't get me wrong, but sometimes when I read your postings everything sounds so complicated, as if yoga is not doable (is that a word?) by normal beings but only by very accomplished people who are constantly struggling to stay ahead of the game. Strange that others, like me, who put in as little effort as possible have wonderful experiences not all the time but very often. When you write about yoga it sounds like a fight not like fun, maybe there lies the reason.
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| You have some excellent points, afroyogi.
I think I need to clarify something, though, although I really didn't want to make this particular thread about me.
In my "theory" classes, Iyengar and Anusara, I do pretty much what you described. I observe from a somewhat clinical point of view. I analyze, compare actions, how they feel, and what moves my body more smoothly. It's pretty impossible for me to find anything meditative when 1) someone is constantly, constantly talking. I pray for the day some teachers learn that it is perfectly OK to have silence in a class. After all, we're supposed to be able to find stillness, right? Anyway,
2) when I'm sitting still. My muscles twitch and spasm. I am so incredibly tight in my upper back that not only sitting up straight, but standing up straight for extended periods causes cramping. It makes me absolutely miserable.
In my Ashtanga practice in a Mysore, through movement and the sound of the breath, I can get into that zone-y state. I love it. I cannot achieve that through any type of led class or something where I'm required to be still. I don't see it happening, although hell might freeze over someday. Never say never, right?
However, once done, I leave both types of classes the way I came in, except that I've stretched. Calmness, serenity, being a better person, suddenly eating better, giving up coffee or my few hedonistic ways, and/or finding something spiritual after my practices just doesn't happen for me.
It might be my pragmatism, it might be my definite Type A personality, and it might just be that it will knock me over the head someday, but as of right now, yoga has not changed my life. At least in any ways I can see, although those who know me might say otherwise. I'm not asking, though. {shrug} It just doesn't concern me.
I was really trying to focus on the fact that not everyone goes through this spiritual or developmental thing (whatever you want to call it), finding the very nice experiences redtail described. For some, yoga will always be another form of exercise -- although I myself do not view it as such, in some ways it is. The fact is, that if someone does not become what is touted to be how a yogi becomes, they're not necessarily on the wrong track, just a different one. It's a stereotype of those who do yoga.
As a matter of fact, have you ever had your yoga practice used against you? Ever been mad at something, or in a disagreement with someone, and some boob (who does not practice yoga, usually) say to you, "Well, that's not very yogic." Like for some reason, someone who practices yoga is not a human being!
I digress. Good thoughts and not so terribly off track.
Christine
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| I have just been surfing the forum. Just want to say, Christine, your knowledge, eloquence, and your honesty is truly inspirational. I wonder if you have read a book called ' After the Ecstasy, the Laundry" by Jack Kornfield who is an American buddhist teacher. At the start of the book he talks about people he knew who had gone to retreats and had 'enlightenment' experiences ( like samadhi ), and then go back to the real world with its associated problems, and found they just decompensate like anyone else. I think he is saying that it is all well and good to have flashes of enlightenment ( sorry I don't know if this sounds right ) but it is not the be all and end all. I kinda think the aim of yoga is to know the 'God' in yourelf, whether by physical means, prayers, meditation or chanting. I am certainly finding as a very junior yoga student that doing physical yoga is forcing me to examine things about myself. Like in my last astanga class, I was he only person who can't do a handstand and forearm stand ( not quite sure if that's what it's called ). So I am examining my ego, ok I am disappointed but why am I doing this class ? Why am I doing these postures ? Is it because I want to look cool or is it about something else ? So I find it good that I am asking myself all these quesions. Sorry about the rambing but just thought I'd share my experience of ego battering.
Oh an another book that your thread remind me of is one by Pema Chodron called ' When Things Fall Apart '. It is about learning to be with even bad experience in your life, accepting that it is part of your life and maybe even loving it. ( She was an American woman whose huband suddenly walked out of a long marriage, and eventually became a buddhist nun ). Maybe a bit like the twitching in your back while you try to it still. That' kinda why I wish one day to try a silent Bikram's class so I can learn to get in touch with my inner feelings of panic and learn to accept it and love it, intead of having it distracted by the teacher's voice. Kinda like what we do in day to day life, using alcohol/TV etc to distract us from our problems. Sorry I keep digressing.
Thanks for putting up with the above ramblings.
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| Sorry. Just thinking about the twitching back. I think what Pema Chodron would say is, instead of fighting it and telling it to stop twitching so you can meditate and be calm, maybe try to listen to it and feel it, ask why it is twitching, meditate on it, and accept it. I don't think this is suppose to be easy. With the calmness/ caffeine / stress stuff, I think everyone's path is different and there is no one path that is the only way, as long as we don't lose sight of the ultimate destination. Also Christine I forgot to say how I admire you for your bravery for sharing so much of yourself. You strike me as a compassionate person and to me that's a true yogi, whatever other people say. Jack Kornfield would say being enlightened doesn't mean you stop having crap in your life or stop getting pissed off and stressed with things, maybe it just means you stop letting those things control your life because you know what is more important. That's my take on his book anyway. |
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| bomberpig - 2004-08-28 7:08 AM
[Also Christine I forgot to say how I admire you for your bravery for sharing so much of yourself. You strike me as a compassionate person and to me that's a true yogi, whatever other people say.]
I would certainly have to agree with Bomberpig. Thank you for sharing yourself with everyone who view this forum, Christine. There is much more in Bomberpig's last reply that is very much in line with everything that yoga is about (Jack Cornfield's and Pema Chodron's quotes). There are as many spiritual AND physical paths as there are beings in the universe. Each has its own unique signature and character--yet we are strikingly similar at the same time. How can this be??? If we examine our minds carefully, I think each of us will have to admit that we are continually in between states of mind. There is a state, where most of our time is spent (unfortunately) that is mostly choatic and confusing. There is also a state that is rarely experienced by our minds (normally) that is very blissful and peaceful--where things just seem to make sense somehow on their own. Most beings live going between these two states of mind. This is very confusing to us, yet it also gives us glimpses of our true selves. It seems that yoga, meditation and spiritual practices are "designed" to show us this nature of our mind and to help expand the latter of the two states. Ultimately (upon reaching an enlightened state), one would simply reside in the latter state of mind and have no need for the former, as it is ultimately an illusion and not real. What this simply shows is that our lives and our spiritual paths are one and the same--they have never existed apart from one another. Our ego simply makes them separate for the benefit of itself. It gives it something to drag us back into it's control of our minds.
It is places like this forum, where individuals can come together in a peaceful, sharing, compassionate way (free from hurtful judgements yet truthful and moral in nature) that can show us this state of mind where peace and bliss reside. After all, it is in our heart and has been all along.
Namaste |
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Expert Yogi
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| There was something in Yoga Journal recently about stress hormones (cortisol?) being significantly lower in yoga students after even just one class. Small study, probably flawed, but interesting.
I have a feeling that Christine probably does have many wonderful effects from yoga but she does so much of it she is aclimatized to it. Rather like me saying my morning coffee isn't really essential for waking up but not daring to try one morning without it But Christine I am glad you made the point because I think many people don't feel anything special from their yoga. In my case I think the practice has made gradual changes to how I am in the world but I don't float around in a tranquil fog all day. As a matter of fact, when people tell me that's how they feel after a class (not mine!) I question the safety of their teacher. But then, I am an Iyengar student, Virgo and straight out how's-that-workin'-for-ya (a la Dr. Phil) pragmatist. it would be interesting to poll students and see how many really do get those magical moments. |
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| I guess the different experiences we all have with yoga probably have something to do with the different states we were in when we started it and the different lifes we come from. I know as a fact that I was a living mess, so the effects of only a few classes were big on me.
Christine on the other hand was most probably on a much higher platform already. I can imagine that she was the self-centered, serious, grown-up person already before she started practicing yoga. So, logically, the effects on her are not as drastic as they are on weaker creatures.
>> As a matter of fact, have you ever had your yoga practice used against you? Ever been mad at something, or in a disagreement with someone, and some boob (who does not practice yoga, usually) say to you, "Well, that's not very yogic." Like for some reason, someone who practices yoga is not a human being! <<
God point! Been there, done that, Chris. But in my case it's not others but myself blaming me. You know, many people think that we Germans are always very self-reflective so maybe it's in my genes.
>> I am certainly finding as a very junior yoga student that doing physical yoga is forcing me to examine things about myself. <<
Well, Janet, that's kinda the same point. I feel it's not only forcing me but enabling me as well to examine things about myself though (fits my yoga-is-a-tool theory). In my old life (before yoga) I may have been able to examine about myself (you know, the selfreflective mind of my people) but I wasn't ready to deal with the outcome. Now I feel more strong and hope I can accept whatever I will find out in the end.
Nevertheless I think that ACCEPTANCE is like a keyword here: Only through acceptance of my physical and intellectual limitations I am able to enjoy the yoga fully. I am a fool! I will never have the knowledge of a yoga expert nor the wisdom of a guru. I will go on being silly, angry, jealous, horny, impulsive and unfair. I will make bad choices, wrong decisions, I will hurt people and will be hurt myself. I am only a human, so to strive for perfection is a struggle for the impossible. To accept that will maybe make me a slightly, little, tiny, wee bit better yogi. As I wrote in my first posting to Christine, the secret is maybe to practice without all that intellectual ballast that we usually schlepp around with us.
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| Tourist:
Or will tell you that's how they feel because that's how they've been told (and read) that they should feel after doing yoga. You know, the fear of being wrong or doing it wrong? Perhaps a weird yoga placebo effect.
Afroyogi:
I remain the type of person you described: Human. Foibels (Foibles?) and all, I am just one who happens to love practicing yoga. Not nidra, not pranayama, not (seated) meditation, hatha yoga that moves in vinyasa. So there you have it!
C. |
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| tourist - 2004-08-29 4:04 AM
< But Christine I am glad you made the point because I think many people don't feel anything special from their yoga. In my case I think the practice has made gradual changes to how I am in the world but I don't float around in a tranquil fog all day.>.
You mean that's how you are supposed to feel after a yoga class ? Tranquil fog !? Crikey where have I been all this time |
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| So, how are we supposed to feel after yoga then???
Especially after bikram I felt tired but full of energy, peaceful and laid back but completely aware, relaxed but ready for a fight at the same time. Tranquil fog??? No sir, not for me. Just different from what I was feeling before class. Better!!! I love it! |
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| Afroyogi made a good point when he mentioned that the "outcome" of a yoga class may have more to do with where we are in the rest of our lives than an actual feeling from the class. Or perhaps that's just my interpretation of what he said, in which case I'll still stick by it. We've mentioned in other threads the idea of the "phase of consolidation" where yoga seemingly nas no effect on us, physically or emotionally. There's no miraculous getting into an asana that we couldn't before, no grand insights into ourselves and/or the world as we walk out. I come from a background with a alot of darkness, so any light at all was initially blinding. At first classes brought up so much that I could only emotionally handle one class a week. I tried two and found myself almost in tears at all times. It just took some working through. There have been times where it feels like nothing at all is happening and I wonder if going to practice is even worth if if I don't get that buzz. But the more I explore my reactions on the mat (aka "you want me to do what? are you out of your mind??" or "oh my god i can't do it i can't do it i can't do it") the more I slow down in my other life, the life that moves with teh rest of the world. The end of this summer finds me in a place very similar to a place I've been before, about 7 years ago. Everything around me is changing, old attachments are being reexamined, and I will be facing most of the changes on my own. This time, though, I have a yoga practice where I can go and stop everything from spinning, even for an hour. I liken it to having a headache - after you have it for ahwile you start to not notice the pain anymore, and then all of a sudden it's gone. Perhaps this isn't the most eloquent way of explaining "the yoga buzz" but hopefully it will make sense... |
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| LoraB - 2004-08-31 12:01 PM
Afroyogi made a good point when he mentioned that the "outcome" of a yoga class may have more to do with where we are in the rest of our lives than an actual feeling from the class. We've mentioned in other threads the idea of the "phase of consolidation" where yoga seemingly nas no effect on us, physically or emotionally. This time, though, I have a yoga practice where I can go and stop everything from spinning, even for an hour..
Our mind can certainly dictate what our body experiences. In fact, it dictates everything. All that we know as I or YOU is simply our perception of I or YOU. IF we examine our lives honestly and deeply we will find that our minds are the masters of us. Not the other way around. If we work with that idea, then we can see that any and everything is possible. At that point we must make a conscious choice about what we want to do. Hopefully, we will not want to cause pain or suffering for anything, because that will come back to us in the form of pain and suffering. So, it is our intent that matters most.
With the thought that intent is a huge part of making us "us," then I would have to agree with LoraB about the "outcome" of a class having more to do with where we are in the rest of our lives.
I guess what I am trying to say is that if it feels good and causes no harm to ourselves or others, then it must be right.................not in a wreckless way, but in a responsible way.
Namaste |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Thought that I'd resurrect this thread....
Specifically, Iyengar yoga classes are indeed very analytical and
systematic, with a lot of "theory" etc. But when I practice Iyengar yoga on my
own, I *practice*, meaning I go through a sequence with minimal interruption
trying to apply whatever I've learned in my classes. It's not usually
vinyasa, as it is in my Ashtanga practices, but it's not just cold-blooded
theory either. Iyengar's sequencing of backbends is brilliant, IMHO, and I
go far deeper when practicing those sequences than when I run into the
same poses in other series.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Bay Guy - is thsi really Bad Guy in disguise or some stranger who is trying to confuse me???
I am currently working on a led-practice sequence and it is really quite fun to look at fitting the poses together nicely without any interruption. Now there will be a few stops because it is an all levels group and they won't all know all of the poses but still, it will more or less "flow." And I guess it is important for people to understand that when you actually PRACTICE Iyengar yoga, there is nobody there making you stop and watch another demo or pointing out corrections on other students (unless you have a very active imagination...) You may take classes in whatever form or style you like, but your practice is your own. You get to do what you want! |
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Iyengar vs Ashtanga and others???
