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pilates is special yoga?
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vinny
Posted 2004-06-04 10:40 PM (#7186)
Subject: pilates is special yoga?



Please tell me that pilates came before yoga or that pilates is really specialized abdominally intensive yoga. Or that Pilates is from different roots.
OK. So?
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kulkarnn
Posted 2004-06-06 12:10 AM (#7208 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


There is NO question that Pilates came from Yoga. Dr. Pilates used Yoga knowledge to treat the army injured soldiers. So Pilates is Yoga minus the mental and spiritual aspects.

Also, Pilates is NOT intense at all. It is a mild form of Yoga.

Neel Kulkarni www.authenticyoga.org
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NaMaleana
Posted 2004-06-19 10:18 PM (#7652 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


Whoa, whoa, whoa...Pilates is not less instense than yoga. I take 2 classes of Pilates and yoga each week. I leave Pilates covered in sweat EVERY time. If you're not, I'd be surprised!

It's more about building muscle strength than stretching muscles, as yoga does.
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kulkarnn
Posted 2004-06-20 1:10 AM (#7656 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


I now accept that Pilates can be intense, but considering that one is not doing Advanced Yoga Poses. Try these, variations of Shoulder stands, Try all hand balances and Headbalance Cycles. And, you will find that Pilates can not get as intense in terms of Effort as Yoga.

But, I agree that if one does Pilates for a while, then it can be quite a great workout.

But the mental aspects and spiritual aspects are missing though.

I did not mean offense, I just defined it plainly.

Neel Kulkarni www.authenticyoga.org
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reinbeau
Posted 2004-06-20 9:53 AM (#7658 - in reply to #7656)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


kulkarnn - 2004-06-20 1:10 AM

I now accept that Pilates can be intense, but considering that one is not doing Advanced Yoga Poses. Try these, variations of Shoulder stands, Try all hand balances and Headbalance Cycles. And, you will find that Pilates can not get as intense in terms of Effort as Yoga.

But, I agree that if one does Pilates for a while, then it can be quite a great workout.

But the mental aspects and spiritual aspects are missing though.

I did not mean offense, I just defined it plainly.

Neel Kulkarni www.authenticyoga.org

Try doing the complete Pilates repertoire in 40 minutes. I guarantee it is intense.

Pilates can be as intense as Yoga. Anyone who practices Pilates and Yoga, both, with the same intentions and view, will tell you the same thing. This isn't about Pilates vs. Yoga. To claim Pilates isn't as 'intense' is misinformation.
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kulkarnn
Posted 2004-06-20 5:14 PM (#7666 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


I apologize if I misinformed. I attended and read Pilates. I did not find it as intense as some of the advanced Yoga work. But, that may be possible.

Neel Kulkarni www.authenticyoga.org
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reinbeau
Posted 2004-06-20 9:15 PM (#7671 - in reply to #7666)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


Most Pilates mat classes are (or should be) at the beginner level if they're open to the public classes, because the instructor doesn't know what the participants may know. This changes over time, but generally speaking a beginner can go into a mat class, the instructor should ask if there are any beginners, and then help that person along.....this drops the rest of the class down to a more beginner level. If you go into a class where they are doing advanced mat work and the instructor lets you join in (as a newbie) then you need to leave that class, that's a poor instructor.

I've been working with my group of students and instructors for five years now. We do intermediate and advanced exercises all the time. But our instructor is good enough that she can teach to multiple levels, and gives the modifications to the beginners while we move through the advanced versions. We have closed classes, also, that only people she knows are qualified to participate in can join. There is where you will experience the intensity. Pilates is a wonderful exercise discipline, whereas Yoga is more than just exercise. (I know and respect that).
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Dagger
Posted 2004-07-19 8:48 PM (#8462 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


From my exeperience, they are equal intensive, but in different ways. Even meditation can be as much as "intensive" if you are trying to gain the full experience. I don't favor one over the other, but I do know each exercise was created for a specific purpose. ^_^

Replying to the first post, Yoga came way before Pilates to my understanding. o_O
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Revampo
Posted 2004-09-01 6:47 PM (#9599 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


You can get great mental benefit from pilates if you care enough to practice long term.I know this because i've been doing yoga since 2001,and pilates,only in the last 6 months.I'm overjoyed for even attemping pilates as the benefits has been short of outstanding.
Remember,some exercises arent suitable for everyone.

And,pilates isnt yoga at all...

Joseph Pilates developed a unique fitness system combining aspects of martial arts, gymnastics, yoga and ancient Greek training techniques, focusing on the coordination of the body, mind and spirit.

Edited by Revampo 2004-09-01 6:53 PM
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YogaGuy
Posted 2004-09-24 4:08 PM (#10261 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


A discussion of which is harder or better is kind of silly.

Facts:
Yoga is like 6000 years old and Pilates is like 80 years old. Pilates definitely borrowed a lot from yoga.

Yoga and Pilates have different focuses and goals. Often pilates is focused on core strength and rehabilitation. Often yoga is based on overall balance, flexibility and strength, meditation as well as union with a divine spirit.

Different people respond differently to different stimuli. Flexible people with weak abs might find pilates more intense than yoga. Conversely, someone who has a strong core and is muscle bound might not break a sweat in a pilates class and be crying in yoga.

Teachers have different styles and intensities. One person can have an intense yoga teacher and a mild pilates teacher and vice versa.

It all depends. Do what works for you. Enjoy.
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throwtoy
Posted 2004-10-11 2:54 PM (#10737 - in reply to #7652)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


if you dont feel your body working during pilates you're probably doing it wrong. you should sweat and feel your muscles working. pilates is a great workout when done correctly. if you have only watched a tape and never been in a class where they are fixing your body positions to make sure you're doing it right you'll never reap the benefits which is a shame. my students work hard and feel it every class.
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kids
Posted 2005-02-25 3:23 PM (#17707 - in reply to #7656)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


As a Certified Pilates Instructor & having tried various forms of yoga, i feel Pilates is diffinetly safer for the masses since it does require lumbar stabilization(as well as stabilization of the shoulder girdle and awareness of other anatomical issues such as rib cage & pelvis alignment, correct use of breath etc). If you are unaware of how important it is to stabilise the core before u move which none of the yoga classes i have attended did you could do alot of damage to your lower back, neck, joints etc. And if you have ever tried advanced mat work or reformer you will know that it requires not only strength but a great deal of flexibilty and concentration and awareness of what each part of your body is doing and where it is in space. personally and from a professional point of view some of the poses in yoga are damaging to the joints particularly if there is no lumbar stabilization & strength from the core abdominal and spinal muscles.
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itchytummy
Posted 2005-02-25 3:53 PM (#17710 - in reply to #17707)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


I am both a pilates and yoga instructor myself, and to be honest (no offense to anyone), I really don't see the point of having a discussion as to saying which is better--yoga or pilates? It's like comparing apples to oranges, they are different disciplines. Some people like pilates more than yoga, others like yoga more than pilates. Who cares? Different strokes for different folks.

If you do any form of exercise without being aware of your body, you can get injured. The same thing goes for pilates and yoga, if you don't watch what you are doing and don't honour your bodies limits and do the exercises correctly, you can get hurt, so I don't know what you mean exactly when you say,

"Personally and from a professional point of view some of the poses in yoga are damaging to the joints particularly if there is no lumbar stabilization & strength from the core abdominal and spinal muscles."

In my opinion, if you fail to give yourself "lumbar stabilization lumbar stabilization & strength from the core abdominal and spinal muscles," that's your fault, not yoga's. It's like when I tell my pilates students to either do an exercise with a neutral spine, or with a C-curve, and they start doing the exercise without making sure that they have that alignment, of course they are most likely to complain of low back pain because they didn't make sure to do the exercise correctly. The same thing goes for yoga. If you do chatarunga dandasana (four-limbed staff pose), with the elbows out and not tucked in at your sides, you're going to strain your rotator cuffs.

I hope this all made sense and that I wasn't just rambling without any sense. No offense to anyone if this came across as abrasive--if it did, I didn't mean for it to seem like that.
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YogaChick
Posted 2005-02-25 4:06 PM (#17714 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: What is Pilates?


I'll try to keep my anser brief:

Joseph Pilates (who was in fact a NURSE, not a doctor) based his method of exercise on studies of various disciplines. Among the many disciplines were yoga, gymnastics, boxing, and dance. The Pilates Method (originally called "Contrology") evolved in Germany in the early twentieth century. Since Germany at that time was a hub for physical fitness, bodybuilding, and dance, Joseph Pilates worked with everyone from injured soldiers to elite dancers. In the mid 1920's, he moved to the United States because of politcal pressure to teach his fitness program to the new German Army. He was naturally drawn to New York City because of his previous work with dancers.

Pilates DOES require a great deal of mental focus to practice correctly, as the original Pilates formula for exercise emphasises mindful movement and precision.

The six basic principles that are applied to every Pilates exercise are: breath, concentration, control, centering, precison, and flow.

There are some aspects of Pilates that are rooted in yoga, but calling Pilates a form of yoga is the same thing as calling gymnastics or dance a form of yoga.

I don't care to get into the "which is more intense" debate, because both yoga and Pilates are as gentle or as intense as you want them to be.
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itchytummy
Posted 2005-02-25 4:31 PM (#17716 - in reply to #17714)
Subject: RE: What is Pilates?


YogaChick, thanks for the insight and the light you let in on this discussion. Your brief description on the origins of Pilates is probably one of the best summaries of Pilates history I've seen in a while. Good job.

I totally agree with your point that a yoga and Pilates practice depends on what you bring into it--it can be as mild or intense as you want it to be.
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kulkarnn
Posted 2005-02-27 10:23 AM (#17802 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


To know Pilates: Read the Original Book by Dr. Pilates, which is called something like 'Contrology'. This is his original book, and I was surprising that out of 26 or some exercises he mentioned, 25 or so are Yoga Poses. Message is clear. it is NOT an original work.

Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org
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jeansyoga
Posted 2005-02-27 5:53 PM (#17873 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


I have to say, I have enjoyed doing Pilates in the past and recognized many similarities between it and yoga.

I just received (as a gift) a DVD of Classical Pilates exercises, in the original Joseph Pilates tradition. I did not know that one could modify Pilates so much for physical challenges, I thought it was very strict and rigid - apparently I was wrong!!

This makes me very happy because Pilates is recommended for recovery from abdominal surgery and prevention of incisional hernias. My yoga practice has been quite limited since the surgery because any sort of backbend or twist can become painful very quickly! It is time for me to practice what I preach to my students and allow my body to only do what it is ready for. But, it is slightly frustrating because so many of my favorite yoga poses are painful right now. Maybe it is just because I haven't been doing Pilates every day for so many years, that being able to do anything at all seems so awesome.
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reinbeau
Posted 2005-02-27 6:45 PM (#17874 - in reply to #17802)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


kulkarnn - 2005-02-27 10:23 AMTo know Pilates: Read the Original Book by Dr. Pilates, which is called something like 'Contrology'. This is his original book, and I was surprising that out of 26 or some exercises he mentioned, 25 or so are Yoga Poses. Message is clear. it is NOT an original work.Neel Kulkarniwww.authenticyoga.org
No one has ever claimed it was an original work.  He wasn't a doctor, either.

Joseph Pilates developed his exercises from many sources, one of which was yoga.  He first developed them because he recognized weaknesses in himself, then he used them to help patients in a hospital during WW1.  He developed some of his equipment in that hospital to help people rehabilitate themselves.  He continued that work in the dance world.  Joseph and Clara were extraordinary people who shared their knowledge with anyone who came to them.
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kulkarnn
Posted 2005-02-27 11:36 PM (#17897 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


Dear reinbeau:
With respects to you, Joseph and Clara, I wish to ask you one question. Please answer directly if you feel confortable only?

Have you read the original book by Joseph and Clara Pilates? Did you read any thing by them which states that they developed the Pilates Method based on Yoga or whatever else you think? Did they mention Yoga in it?

Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org
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reinbeau
Posted 2005-02-28 5:10 AM (#17914 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


Yes, I have the book upstairs and I've read it, it's titled Pilates, Return to Life Through Contrology, and his other titled Your Health: A Corrective System of Exercising That Revolutionizes the Entire Field of Physical Education.  He mentions yoga, he mentions other things.
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kulkarnn
Posted 2005-02-28 1:34 PM (#17950 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


Dear reinbeau:
Thanks vvery much. I think I will get the first one within a couple of hours. The second one I shall try to get within a couple of days. Can you kindly let me know where in the first book he mentions Yoga. Now,

a) Do you acccept that most of his poses in the first book look like Yoga Poses?

b) Does he mention Yoga in the preface, cover or any visible part of the Book in terms of Introduction to his work?

c) Does he mention or the reviewers of that book in the introduction, cover, preface, etc. mention that his work is original?

I shall wait on you.

Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org
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reinbeau
Posted 2005-02-28 5:57 PM (#17965 - in reply to #17950)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


kulkarnn - 2005-02-28 1:34 PMDear reinbeau:Thanks vvery much. I think I will get the first one within a couple of hours. The second one I shall try to get within a couple of days. Can you kindly let me know where in the first book he mentions Yoga. Now, a) Do you acccept that most of his poses in the first book look like Yoga Poses?b) Does he mention Yoga in the preface, cover or any visible part of the Book in terms of Introduction to his work?c) Does he mention or the reviewers of that book in the introduction, cover, preface, etc. mention that his work is original?I shall wait on you.Neel Kulkarniwww.authenticyoga.org
I guess I have to ask....why?  I don't know where he first mentionsYoga, I just know that he acknowledged Yoga as something he drew on.  Why is this so important? 

I mean no insult, but this bickering whether Yoga or Pilates is better really bothers me.  Some prefer Yoga, some prefer Pilates.  I've grown to enjoy Yoga better as a result of my Pilates work, but for me I know Pilates is what made the difference for me.  Others have different experiences.  Propogating this Yoga vs. Pilates thing isn't something I'm interested in.
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jeansyoga
Posted 2005-03-01 7:34 AM (#18002 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


First of all: Neil - now the two books are combined into one volume called "The Pilates Primer: Millenium Edition" which you can get for about $11 on Amazon. I just got my copy yesterday and I think you will enjoy it very much. Joseph's no-nonsense tone reminds me of you!

Second: Reinbeau - I don't think that Neil necessarily means to argue about which is better. I could be wrong because of course I don't know what's in someone else's head. I believe it is a combination of language barrier and a very strict, detailed training that makes him come across more sternly. I think he's really interested in learning more about this subject and since yoga is his main frame of reference, wants to understand in great detail how they are related.

We can all agree that "better" is in the eye of the beholder, and only seek to learn more about as much as possible!
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throwtoy
Posted 2005-03-01 9:32 AM (#18004 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


people tend to get carried away trying to prove one is better than the other. As reinbeau i believe said it's up to the person. one may work better for you one works better for someone else. they both work the body in a similar fashion, with strengthening, etc. yoga is sometimes more for someone that may want to meditate and have more of a spiritual part of it, PIlates people tend to focus more on the physical side of it. hey as long as people are doing something that helps themselves i dont think ot matters which one they do.

there will always be people that want to say one is better than ther other and so what if Joseph Pilates pulled ideas from his practices in Yoga?? He devevloped something that worked better for himself and thought others could benefit from it and they did and continue to do so.

why is it so important for some yoga believers to make Pilates sound bad? I just dont get it.
just my 2 cents.
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kulkarnn
Posted 2005-03-01 1:20 PM (#18022 - in reply to #7186)
Subject: RE: pilates is special yoga?


To ALL, but especially to reinbeau, and the last poster:

1. this thread started with a question from vinny and title of the thread probably by the Vinnny. I have no control over that.

2. I replied to that first post based on the original question.

3. Subsequently, certain topics associated with the original topic came and I replied them to the best of my ability.

4. The above trend has continued.

5. I have NOT (assumption!!!) mentioned that Yoga is Better than Pilates. Now, acknowledging that, I can now actually mention that in the true sense Yoga is more effective and encompassing than Pilates. I have no shame or shyness in stating so. In fact, I can mention this: Yoga Exercise is the most efficient and complete Exercise a human has formed ever. The reason is simple. In a true (not styles for say) Hatha Yoga exercise, each part of the system can be properly trained to one's own ability, in a way one's goal can be reached. For example, one may do headstand for balance, another may do it for stretching in an inverted pose, etc, etc.

6. If you look at all my postings under this thread, I have only mentioned what I know for sure, and in a way it addresses the previous post or posts. So, there is NO thought in my mind to harm or insult any one. I actually paid my respects to reinbeau, Joseph and Clara. I have a right to state or ask what I wish to.

7. Lastly, I am sure that if I formed style of exercise where 90 or more percent of exercises are direct copy of Yoga exercises, I will surely mention that in the front introductory part of my book directly.

Peacce
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org
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