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| i heard bikram treated president nixon for phlebitis. what is fact and what is fiction? |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | That doesn't surprise me about Nixon. Did you know he was one of the original ones who first experienced Acupuncture when he visited China and needed medical care?? Because of that, he helped introduce it to the USA. My TCMD told me this and I do believe it is documented somewhere too. |
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| It is even a bigger story than that told to me at TT. Bikram was teaching in Hawaii as an illegal alien and got called to Washington to heal Nixon. He used baths with epsom salts and special postures for the leg. After he was healed they just gave him a studio in San Fran and gave him his citizenship. He did not have to sign anything. This is how Bikram describes coming to the US. He had nothing when he showed up in Hawaii after saying no to handling Billions of dollars for the Emperess of Japan. Taught yoga in Hawaii and made friends and a community of practitioners. Then the whole Nixon thing happened and he was in California.
Yogabrian was the last person trying to weed fact from fiction. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
 
Location: A Blue State |
That sounds like a bit of a tall tale, IMHO. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Someone likes to think of himself as a legend, perhaps? |
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| Yeah, a legend in his own mind!  |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Actually, Nixon was very open to alternative things, it could be somewhat true...but, if you guys are talking about Bikram, I don't know about that  |
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| After reading this thread I contacted the Nixon Library regarding Bikram and the President.
Here is a copy of the email
Dear Mr. Monnier: I am replying to your inquiry about whether Bikram Choudhury treated President Nixon for his phlebitis condition. We've checked our archives and found nothing on file to confirm Mr. Choudhury's treatment such as correspondence, invoices or payment checks. Also, there is no mention of Mr. Choudhury in Healing Richard Nixon, the autobiography by the President's personal physician, Dr. John C. Lungren, which describes the treatment of the President's phlebitis in considerable detail. I hope this is helpful. Sincerely, John Taylor, director, Nixon Library
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Brian ---
Wow, that's great research! Sounds pretty much like the story about
Bikram treating Nixon is not true. But didn't somebody say that they
had heard the story directly from Bikram?
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | The guy said nothing was on file...if Nixon was getting treatment from Bikram, what makes you think there would be a file or record?? Only MD's keep files and records. Alternative medicine would not be something on record, especially since it was not considered as anything medical of the sort back then. So, Bikram still could have treated Nixon, he could have kept it very private considering all the negative feedback and gossip he would have gotten had it been public record back then. Besides, Nixon was into alternative things, he did Acupuncture when he got sick China and that is true!! |
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| He told this story to 209 people at the fall teacher training in 2000. With many other tall tales. I tried to keep an open mind the whole time during TT but by the last week I new he was a con artist who liked to talk about himself. I felt then, that what he was doing is dangerous. I did not learn anything other than what to say to teach and the use of my will, in trying to keep out of the bulls... energy that was being broadcast 24/6. |
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| I don't know Cyndi, A man of the president Nixon status would not really be the type to have not left some kind of paper trail. I don't doubt that he may have been into alternative medecine, but when the organization that is basically considered experts on the man say it did not happen, I tend to believe them.
innerline,
While I tend to agree with you about Bikram liking to talk about himself, don't forget that he does know alot about the body. I think a major problem with his training is that not many people stay in La after the 9 weeks. I would love to see the instructor that spent a couple years(say 4-5 years) learning directly under Bikram. |
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| Tony Sanchez, Barron Baptiste, Jimmy Barkan.
All former Bikram proteges who spent years under his tutelage and are well respected. Though, I understand none are on talking terms with him today. |
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| yogabrian - 2005-04-12 11:35 AM
innerline,
While I tend to agree with you about Bikram liking to talk about himself, don't forget that he does know alot about the body. I think a major problem with his training is that not many people stay in La after the 9 weeks. I would love to see the instructor that spent a couple years(say 4-5 years) learning directly under Bikram.
To know alot about something is a relative term. Compared to what? The average person, yes very much so. Compared to other people deeply into the somatic arts, No he does not "show" very much knowledge. And it is the responsiblity of a leader to as clearly as he can, express what he knows and the intentions of the work. And in his empire if you have to live at his yoga studio for years to gleen his knowledge then he is not serving his empire. So when I hear you say "don't forget that he does know alot about the body." I wonder how you came to this conclusion, because in my experience from the training and his book and other statements he has made over the years I do not see this. |
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| innerline is right on. Knowledge is relative. So is confidence.
Let's face it, 90 minutes of Bikram yoga with the heat is interesting. I think that's one of the reasons the Bikram thread is so popular. I was completely wary of Bikram treachers when I first started 4 years only b/c of their sheer confidence. That's what Bikram sells - confidence. And good for him. It bought him a fancy car and watch (according to the Mother Jones article) which he thinks is really important. Does it matter if you or I think it's important? He reminds me of a televangalist. On the good side he's very charismatic and gives people hope. People love having hope. On the bad side he's cocky, redundant and pedantic. I've been in Bikram classes where the teacher actually says they've cured people's cancer with Bikram yoga and then rattle off some ridiculously long name of a pose instead of speaking English. I've stopped taking classes at studios where the confidence far surpasses any "knowledge" of health or human anatomy and physiology. I've gotten wiser about my own body, more confident about what I want in a yoga class, found an awesome (down-to-earth) Bikram studio and, I'm happy to say, have reached new levels of Bikramness.
As an aside - any good practitioner, alternative or not, will keep records. Even astrologers keep records.
fifi |
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| Innerline,
Yes, I agree that knowledge is relative. However Bikram was trained and considered a protege' of Bishnu Ghosh. Yes, he may not really talk about it and it maybe a little rusty, but I am sure that if you had the chance to sit down with Bikram and interview him about the various ways the asanas affect the body, I am sure that you would find a person who indeed does know more then he teaches. Granted, he would more then likely try to sell you on his sequence being the best.
Also granted that you might have to live at his studio and basically be a slave for years, but look at the results, Tony Sanchez (my teacher) trained with Bikram for 6 years, and practiced 9 hours a day with Bikram. He also ran the BYCI in San Francisco for an additional 5-6 years. Tony's practice is one of the strongest out there and knows more about yoga then most I have met. I am sure that Jimmy Barkan has a similar story. I am also fairly sure that Baron Baptise did actually live with Bikram for awhile. Some would call it paying your dues.
I don't doubt that you had a bad experience from the training. You would not be the first that I have heard of. Many do, most can't cut it. Bikram is a hard man to be devoted to as a teacher.
Hot Yogi
I was thinking of people who train nowadays. The people you listed I would say are fine examples of Yogis well trained by Bikram. |
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| That sounds like a testimony to Tony's own incredible inner strength. You're right, not many people could do what he did. It's also a testimony that Bikram IS a good teacher. Great teachers produce superior students.  |
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| Yogabrian: I am not into devotion to a person. Tony did an amazing demonstration of the 84 postures at my TT. I do not know him personally. There are people who can be amazing in action but are not oriented to mental understanding. They can do but can not speak very well. A teacher needs to be well developed in doing and in cognition. Otherwise you get just beleive and keep trying. So there is a balance between being and knowledge. If one, being or knowledge,gets ahead of the other too much, then growth stops. The tradition of yoga came from a culture that was out of balance toward being. The western world is out of balance toward knowledge. This shows up in the two hemispheres of the brain. HATHA is sun/moon or left and right brain or male/female. Hatha yoga has a goal to bring these two into harmony so the spirit in the crack can be realized. Bishnu Ghosh was apart of the re-beginning of Hatha yoga getting sceintific again. His protege Bikram was a big doer and the two together made for a powerful force. Bishnu died and with it much knowledge. We are left with the doer who can not speak very well. Bikram is just repeating what his guru taught him. This is based on the 1920-50 level of human consciousness. Because of the work of great teachers of the past and development over time we have the possiblity to express and understand with greater efficiency and depth. So the blind trust of the past is not neccessary and would be a step backward. Practice without self study or study without practice leads to imbalance and the slow blind way. Which is how I started yoga just following Bikram. Funny aint it. When I started studying is when I started to see the imbalances in Bikram's world. |
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| Hey people, would you run a marathon just to get the drinks at the end or just go to the end and get the drinks. Just because someone was able to push through and get to the end does not demonstrate wisdom. Struggle is optional on this planet and you might need to struggle to realize that. |
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| Innerline,
Agreed. I think you make some very valid points. I still would love to be able to sit down and interview the man. Would be interesting to seeing if he possesed comprehention of the knowlegde he got from Ghosh. |
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| Cyndi - 2005-04-14 11:25 AM
The guy said nothing was on file...if Nixon was getting treatment from Bikram, what makes you think there would be a file or record?? Only MD's keep files and records. Alternative medicine would not be something on record, especially since it was not considered as anything medical of the sort back then.
I am afraid you are wrong Cyndi. Doctors and Lawyers are not the only ones who keep records.
Are you not aware of the Secret Service? Every moment of every day of President's life is recorded in his diary, not by him but by an employee specifically for that. These are public record. If Nixon saw Bikram it would be there. Period.
I was at Spring 2000 TT and I heard the same Tall Tale. One of many I am afraid.
Unfortunately I don't think he planned on people NOT believing all that BS and some of it being verifiable, if only it were true. If only....
I am curious Cyndi... have you ever been in the presence of The GooRoo?
Dee
Edited by miss dee 2005-04-12 9:53 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | Obviously if Bikram had treated Nixon at the time he had phlebitis (that was
1974, wasn't it?) there would be records. Nixon has often been accused of
faking the disease to avoid impeachment, and he could hardly have brought
in a yogi to cure himself without raising Congressional suspicions. The bit
about Nixon somehow finessing Bikram's immigration to the US is pretty
dubious as well. To the best of my knowledge, immigration is governed by
laws that Congress makes, and the Executive Branch can't bypass those laws.
I very much doubt that there's a special category of "immigration by favor of
the President" (although I will confess to being too lazy to look this up...prove
me wrong instead...).
It doesn't speak very well of Bikram's attitude toward his teachers if he's telling
them stories that are not true....
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | miss dee - 2005-04-12 9:38 PM
Cyndi - 2005-04-14 11:25 AM
The guy said nothing was on file...if Nixon was getting treatment from Bikram, what makes you think there would be a file or record?? Only MD's keep files and records. Alternative medicine would not be something on record, especially since it was not considered as anything medical of the sort back then.
I am afraid you are wrong Cyndi. Doctors and Lawyers are not the only ones who keep records.
Are you not aware of the Secret Service? Every moment of every day of President's life is recorded in his diary, not by him but by an employee specifically for that. These are public record. If Nixon saw Bikram it would be there. Period.
I was at Spring 2000 TT and I heard the same Tall Tale. One of many I am afraid.
Unfortunately I don't think he planned on people NOT believing all that BS and some of it being verifiable, if only it were true. If only....
I am curious Cyndi... have you ever been in the presence of The GooRoo?
Dee
Of course I know who the secret service is.. My Mother in law went to school with Rosalyn Carter. I happened to be in the drycleaners one day when they ALL showed up...just to pick up the laundry. Besides, that information is still questionable and the information provided in the original poster did not come from the secret service, some things are private and that's not enough proof for me to say that it DID NOT happen.
Which GOO ROO are you referring to?? If your referrring to Bikram, NO, but I'm well versed and have been following his goings on and I can read his articles, interviews, his books and whatever else. I don't have to be around him in person to form an opinion because I don't take it that deep like Ya'll do. I have been around lots of Guru's, both Tibetan and Indian and there is really not that much difference as far as I can see...it's always the students..especially the disgruntled ones that make so much noise...oh, and the piss moaning and complaining that goes on...why do you even teach Bikram in the first place with all the negative feelings you have for the man??? THAT is why I won't go to a Studio...it's not Bikram, its you guys!!
BTW, my TCMD's don't keep records on me...my body is always changing all the time, every day. They KNOW who I am and what my needs are without having to do useless paperwork...it is not necessary...that's another American trait, just to analyze, waist time, when other time can be spent. This is not an art for American Doctors, besides their paperwork and documentation only justifies how they overcharge people and so the pharmacuetical companies can pay them. Lawyers on the other hand need their paperwork to file all those motions for hearings, etc... I should know, I used to type the darn things.
Is there anything else you would like to know or question or dispute with me about since I don't follow the usual Bikram bashing or the "click" that goes on in this forum??? Talk about cults.
Edited by Cyndi 2005-04-12 10:07 PM
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | Cyndi- I for one am getting a little sick of your constant anti-American comments. If it's that bad, why don't you renounce your American citizenship and move to Tibet? This is one way in which you really remind me of your beloved Bikram- he contantly yapped about "You Americans" during the nine endless weeks I spent in his presence, stopping only long enough to consult his Rolex or polish one of his many Bentleys, items he doubtless would not own were he not plying his trade in the United States. No doubt you enjoy the many benefits of living in the United States as well.
I have taught Bikram yoga for almost 3 years. Why? In an effort to recoup some of the investment I made in training and with hopes that I could somehow recapture the joy that practicing Bikram yoga gave me before I went to TT. It hasn't worked and I'm pleased to say that May 19 will be my last Bikram yoga class (only waiting that long b/c the studio where I work is shorthanded) and I CAN'T WAIT. |
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| wow-
I don't really know where to start, clearly I will need to keep it as simple as possible.
I teach bikram yoga/hot yoga because I am able to separate the man from the practice.
something you obviously can not do.
okay, call me a Crazy American- but it'll be a cold day in my studio before I declare loyality to a living teacher not having heard anything from the horses mouth. you talk about and defend the man as if you are deep in the 'wash' and you've never even been in his presence? you are this loyal with only second hand information? as bad as a beating he takes in the press, one would think you'd want to get in there and see the TRUTH for your self. and the books? there's been one. published twice.
for the record-my acupuncturist always writes stuff down...BECAUSE my body is constantly changing. no one remembers everything about everyone. even if they are NOT stupid Americans! (I agree that all your America bashing ought to stop)
it's good to know - (though it's becoming more obvious) that all your vast experience typing and picking up dry-cleaning are the basis of your knowledge. it helps not take your posts too seriously.
Dee
Edited by miss dee 2005-04-13 8:52 AM
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nixon
