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| Ok so i have been pretty bored on the board here lately. In class yesterday while listening to the dialogue i got to thinking about the many medical benefits that the yoga does. I thought it might be fun if us practitioners might try and find some sort of scientific backing of the claims that Bikram makes. We could post those studies, papers, etc on the board and maybe feel a little better when we make these claims to others.
I thought we could start with the one that is mentioned in several of the postures and what i might poorly summarize as "the benefits gained to the joints from the hydrostatic pressure of the blood when it is blocked and then released".
Right off my head i can think of Eagle but the instructor usually states that this blocking and then releasing of the blood pressure basically causes buildup (what exact buildup is not clear) in the veins, arteries, and/or joints to clear out and thus become more healthy.
Any doctors or medical people know of any evidence of this? What i was hoping to get is not someone's personal knowledge but trying to get actual documentation via a medical journal or some study that might refer to this.
Thanks,
Nick |
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| It's entirely possible that the theory is bunk, but the benefits are real.
The tourniquet effect, which I think is the same thing that you are talking about, is mentioned in Eagle (for reproductive organs), Standing Separate Leg Head to Knee (for thyroid), Wind Removing (for intestinal track and hips), Locust (elbows and hands), Fixed Firm (knees and ankles).
I read that Bikram had commissioned some studies a few years back, but I don't know what happened with them -- whether they are sill ongoing or not? Other than that, I'm not aware of any serious medical studies on the health benefits of yoga routines, much less on the specific benefits from individual postures.
I'm tempted to say that I don't really care. Studies are still trying to figure out whether acupuncture CAN work, despite tons of evidence that it actually does work. I'd expect the same sort of thing with yoga studies.
Duffy |
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| Duffy,
I think that you are right about the Bikram theory vs the results. The theory is very suspect, but the benefits are often very real and probably for an entirely different reason. This is probably because the results came first through trial and error and then a theory was developed (made up) to explain the results.
Like with your example of acupuncture, I think that the theory (classical Chinese medical theory) is also bunk but the results real because the needle is taking a nerve impulse that is sending an ongoing (chronic) pain message and kind of flicking the switch by sending a quick pain impulse (the needle) which sends an acute pain message which is followed by a immediate pain off message that also turns off the chronic pain message as well as the acute message. Chronic pain sends a steady stream of messages that are translated as pain while acute pain sends a single sharp pain message that is automatically followed by a pain off message. This off message can turn off both the acute and the chronic pain message flow. (This is a very summarized explanation. In effect, the needle is tricking the nervous system into turning off a particular pain response. This is why even major surgery can be performed with acupuncture as an anaesthetic)
Therefore, a scientific study of the theory would be a waste of time. What we need is a scientific study of the results of the poses without any kind of pre-existing theory. Rather than proving or disproving a theory, we should seek to better understand exactly what the poses do and where, why and how they are beneficial based on facts and not myths (whether ancient or modern).
Jim
Edited by jimg 2009-04-17 7:44 PM
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Veteran
Posts: 149
 
| I have ACTUAL results........ have you seen my post broken hip? or Hormones? my body has done amazing things beyond the medical facts too w/ alignment and correcting rotation. We have lowered my meds and have started to produce estrogen on my own!!! tons of stuff I can't begin to explain how it has changed my life and my doc is BLOWN every time I go into his office he LOVEs it LOL |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 399
Location: Oregon | I doctor I work with said that 50% of medications are placebo. I'm not sure where he's getting those numbers, but I do think how we approach illness, injury or just life maintenance is just as important as what we do. Ie: you have to believe that it will work. Me? I've drunk the kool aid regarding the "tourniquet effect" in Fixed Firm. I healed up a knee via Bikrams. Awkward, Eagle and Fixed Firm? Youbetcha. |
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| Yeah, Bikram is always talking about these medical studies that he's supporting, and I think there are people really trying to create some kind of scientific study, but I dunno if or when they'll ever get anything published. I think it's an inherently tricky thing to study. I agree with basically EVERYONE who's posted so far. The best thing we can do is measure the results of the method, and then try to guess how they happened. (By the way, this is exactly what we do in "real science", too - it's practically the definition of engineering.)
As for the placebo idea - that reminds me of a really interesting comment from Bikram yoga website, under the testimonials section:
"The dramatic improvements you'll read about in these testimonials can be attributed to causes besides the yoga itself: a deep desire to get well, the effort of going to yoga day after day, even when in pain, a desire to overcome fear of the unknown, and the confidence the instructor has in the ability of Bikram Yoga to bring healing to the situation. All these are important components of the healing process and should not be underestimated."
Of course, the page then continues on to talk about how the yoga DOES work, but I thought it was interesting and cool that they credited the psychological process as well. "Placebo effect" has very dismissive connotations to me, but this is a totally different spin on it, basically saying that WANTING to get well and WORKING to get well do actually help you to get well. |
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| DJ Dre - 2009-04-19 8:52 PM
I doctor I work with said that 50% of medications are placebo. I'm not sure where he's getting those numbers, but I do think how we approach illness, injury or just life maintenance is just as important as what we do. Ie: you have to believe that it will work. Me? I've drunk the kool aid regarding the "tourniquet effect" in Fixed Firm. I healed up a knee via Bikrams. Awkward, Eagle and Fixed Firm? Youbetcha.
This is a very interesting subject. When I want to go to the store, I go put on my coat and go out the door. My dogs ignore me. When I am going to take my dogs on a walk, I put on my coat and somehow they know that they will get to go (before I grab their leashes) and they go nuts with excitement. Their entire mind/body/energy is jazzed about the anticipation of a walk.
I think that our bodies do the same with sickness and healing. When we anticipate wellness, our mind/body/energies react and produce it. If we anticipate sickness, we produce that. Since we have all kinds of sickness and health in our bodies all the time, if we anticipate health, our bodies get to work producing it and reducing the potential of the sickness. (On a molecular level killing the bad guys while strengthening the good guys.) This, of course, has limits, but whether my dogs anticipate going for a walk for the "right" or the "wrong" reason, their excitement (physical response) is the same based solely on their anticipation. |
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Bikram Legends - Benefit of Hydrostatic Blood Pressure
