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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State | That's an interesting quote. One of the more remarkable people that I know
is one who learned early on that you can survive failure. If I went into details,
it would be too revealing of him, but I can say that when he was in his 50's and
60's he headed the institution that fired him when he was in his 30's. He has this
ability to implement 10 ideas, 9 of them bad, and survive the utter disasters that
the nine bad ones lead to while riding on the success of the tenth one. He's the kind
of person who can be knocked right off his feet, pick himself up, dust off, and
keep walking.
I'd contrast him with a number of other people I work with who live in total terror
that they'd ever make an observable error. The ones who fear failure work incrementally,
in little steps, whereas the ones who don't fear failure take chances. Not fearing failure
and being able to survive your errors makes a very powerful combination --- such people
are often extremely successful overall.
Getting back to attachment, I'd say that the error-fearing people are very deeply attached
to their pride, and that the ones who don't fear error may be so indifferent to consequences
that you could call them self-centered -- also an attachment, I think. They are greedy for
results at whatever cost.
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| Dear Brother Bay Guy:
Though the theory of Non Attachment, called as Nishkaama Karma, works to some extent in the Daily Routine Life (that is called as Vyavahar in the Sanskrit.), its real implication is for a Spiritual Person.
This means that person may actually do the daily routinous work, or may do meditational actions without much getting into to social aspects. But, the principle of his activity has to be NON Attachment to the Fruits of that action. Then only it is called as Nishkaama Karma which is the Yoga Practice.
In Bhagavadgita, Lord Krishna tells Arjuna to fight in the battle to perform his duty, without attaching to the fruits of it.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Dear Brother Neel,
The people I was think of have no spirituality of which I am aware or can
infer. They are completely unspiritual people. So if I understand your point,
it is that non-attachment isn't really even a useful way to think of them, right?
These folks are extremely attached to the fruits of their labor, oh my yes.
Bay Guy
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| Yes, Brother BG. Thanks for this. Yes, NON Attachment is NOT be (and, can not be ) practiced by
NON-Spiritual People. Otherwise, there will be a confusion. To give a parallel example, let me tell you a story with one of my Yoga Teacher Trainee. She felt shy to instruct students as some students were better in poses than her. I told her that you are a Teacher in the class you are Teaching and even a world famous teacher attending your class must obey you if he is in the student community. So, go ahead.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
I come from a tradition of learning in which students are encouraged to
question the teacher's reasons and thinking at every step. It can be
quite challenging to teach in such an environment, since the teacher
must be a true master of the material he or she teaches. In yoga classes,
the style is to let the teacher slowly unveil whatever it is that s/he is
teaching...questions are usually directed at modifications or "have I got
this right" rather than "why are we doing this pose now". |
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| Bay Guy - 2005-01-24 8:50 PM
Yes, Taimni mentions the relationship to Samkhya and he's very specific in saying
that purushas remain separate even when they evolve to purusha vishesha. He's
very good in other areas of the sutras, at least in the sense of explaining the basic
ideas thoroughly. He gives much more detail than some of the other commentaries
that I have.
I'm coming in late on this thread, so pardon me if it seems intrusive, but it's an interesting discussion and there are a few points I'd like to take a stab at.
The first being that while Taimni might be a good introductory read, from my subsequent readings of other treatments on PYS, he can go astray on a number of points. I read his book several years back and no longer have it, so sorry but I can't be specific.
However, a subsequent comparitive study of Legget's "Sankara on the Yoga Sutras" along with another translation (under a respected Acharya) revealed some major weaknesses. Also, Taimni's is a Theosophical Society publication, which is not to say it's bad, but just that might be considered less than authoritative on those grounds.
Legget's study is a good reference as it contains Vyasa Maharishi's commentary as well as what is thought to be the commentary of Shankaracharya. (Check on Amazon for a used copy. It’s quite pricey new.)
Another consideration when studying PYS is the difficulty in translating shades of meaning of the very subtle and colorful Sanskrit, which the rather more stark and prosaic English language often doesn’t do justice.
Try to get hold of a two or three decent versions by different authors and comparing the sutra translations carefully. It’s tedious, but with careful reflection it helps tease out the meaning. Obviously having a knowledgeable teacher helps a lot too!
In addition to Legget’s version, I also mainly refer to Vishnudevanandas translation in “Meditation and Mantras”, which is somewhat sketchy, but it has the Sanskrit text plus the phonetic rendering in Roman letters, with the Swami’s commentary.
I’m sure there are other good versions out there too. If anyone can recommend one, please do so.
I’m glad this forum exists, and to be able to take part in these discussions in the spirit of mutual growth in knowledge. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | Sivaram,
This is interesting. I don't follow your criticism of the Theosophical Society.
Can you clarify this for me? On Taimni in general, I agree that he gets himself
muddled at points, especially when he starts talking about astrophysics or
E = m*c*c --- sort of a need to connect the Science of Yoga to the physical sciences,
which is a slippery slope indeed.
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| Dear Shivaram and Bay Guy: I just wanted to add two following points, in case they are relavant to you. I am not able to give all reasonin and explanation as that will take too long.
1. Legget's book titles Shankara --- This is NOT Adi Shankaracharya. Adi Shakaracharya. There is NO doubt about it. Also, if any one of you can get me the Sanskrit Version of that book, I mean the Shankara Part, I shall be extremely thankful.
2. Vyaasa Maharshi in the Legget's Book, or the New York University (Dr. Kukherjee) book or any other book, is NOT Vedavyasa, the author of Shrimad Bhagavadgita. Why? This is very simple. Patanjali wrote the Aphorisms after Gautam Budda. And, Veda Vyasa's time is 3000 or more years before Christ.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Dear Brother Neel,
I'm afraid that I can be of no help to you on the books, other
than to suggest that you search Amazon.com or Alibris.com
The latter specializes in used books.
At one time, you had recommended some specific commentaries on
the Yoga Sutras. I lost track of that post. Can you recommend them
again?
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| Dear BG:
The commentaries I recommend are as follows:
1. Rajayoga by Swami Vivekananda (it is not actually a writing but notes from his speeches.). Look for Complette Works of Swami Vivekananda - vol 1. It should cost less than 10 dollars.
2. Yoga Sutras of Patanjali - by Swami Sachidananda, Yogaville (www.yogaville.org). These are also notes from his speeches.
With all humility, I can also recommend Videos of My (neel kulkarni) workshop sppeches of Yoga Sutras of Patanjali at Sun and Moon Yoga Studio in Arlington, VA. So far Introduction and Chapter 1 are over (7 hours of video). And, all others will be over by May, one chapter each Month from March to May.
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Thanks, Brother Neel.
Piel has just created a new forum on Philosophy and Religion, so I suggest
that we move our discussions of these topics there, out of the Meditiation Forum.
Bay Guy |
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| Bay Guy - 2005-02-26 8:25 PM
Sivaram,
This is interesting. I don't follow your criticism of the Theosophical Society.
Can you clarify this for me? On Taimni in general, I agree that he gets himself
muddled at points, especially when he starts talking about astrophysics or
E = m*c*c --- sort of a need to connect the Science of Yoga to the physical sciences,
which is a slippery slope indeed.
Well, largely it’s personal bias, nothing to follow really. Personally, I prefer to stay fairly close to an authoritative tradition and while I sometimes resort to stories and examples from Buddhism and Taoism, I think too much eclecticism can run the risk of watering down what are already complete and powerful teachings - as in yoga itself. Theosophy is relatively new, has definite occult connections, gathers information and teaches in a rather random fashion, and has no strong historical teaching lineage. Therefore I’m skeptical. Taimni’s book didn’t help to raise my opinion. Also I’ve personally known people who’ve come to harm from dabbling in occult practices such as Theosophy disseminates. I don’t agree with telling just any first time meditation student about such things as astral projection and awakening kundalini shakti. |
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Hinduism and Christianity
