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| Hi all,
So glad to find this forum!! I've been doing Bikram Yoga everyday for about 6 months now. I am totally addicted. My body is changing like crazy!! Anyhow, here's my problem. I have terrible knees and I am still trying to to fixed firm and sit on my heels. I've come a long long way, but it's getting frustrating. Have any of you experinced this or have taught people like me?
Thanks!!  |
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| what does that translate to in non-bikram speak? |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | Hi Gainup-
Welcome to the forum! Regarding fixed firm (in non-Bikram speak, this is supta virasana), you actually try to sit in between the heels, with the rear on the floor, not on them. Since you referred to sitting on the heels rather than in between them, are you modifying because of pain in the knee but still having a hard time sitting back on them? That is what I ask students to do if knee pain prohibits them from sitting in between.
You can bring your hands on to the floor slightly in front on you and rest some of your weight there as you work on lowering your seat back on to your heels. Once you can do that, I would suggest separating the heels and working toward lowering the rear to the floor. If you're hovering off the ground, no problem. I've seen people who whose seats were practically in outer space eventually sit down in between the heels with regular practice.
Definitely baby the knees in this one (in every pose, really). And make sure that the tops of the feet are flat on the floor, with toes pointing back, not out to the sides. That "frog foot" thing is very bad for knees.
Hope this helps- please let me know if you need more info. |
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| gainup - 2005-03-16 10:32 PM
I have terrible knees and I am still trying to to fixed firm and sit on my heels. I've come a long long way, but it's getting frustrating. Have any of you experinced this or have taught people like me?
It took one of my students two full years of attending 4 times a week before he was able to go all the way back in Fixed Firm Pose. Patience is required. Still, I urge my students not to think about the poses in terms of how far they can go but rather learning to accept their body as it is today and just keep doing the posture as well as you can.
For this pose, I instruct people with tight or otherwise challenged knees to lean forward and place their hands on the floor in front of them to support the majority of the body's weight. You can then slowly start to transfer the weight gradually from the hands to the hips as the knees (and ankles) become more comfortable. I also tell them to never push into this pose - it's more a process of allowing the body to go back as it becomes ready. Always stop short of pain in the knees.
Careful persistence is more important than pushing.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hi Gainup,
Glad to meet another Bikramite!! Good for you on the everyday for 6 mos. I did the everyday for 2 months...now I'm on a 2-3 times weekly Bikram schedule. I had some issues with Fixed Firm and Camel at first. Guess what?? After a year, these are my favorites. I can go all the way back now and I love these asana's - camel especially. What ebenjen says is true. This is what keeps me motivated to do Bikram..the words that are constantly said in my mind about doing the posture to the best of your ability and where you are at is so comforting. I am no where near doing some of these postures at 70% and its been a year. I will say that I have come a long way from when I first came into the studio and now I practice at home. This is a really good forum for learning about Yoga in America and watching everyone's experience. |
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| Gainup,
Welcome to the board! As to your knees, I concur with the board on this one. Patience, proper practice and proper nutrution will be thing that helps your knees. This Fixed firm can be VERY hard on the bad knees if you are not careful. Tread litely, you can mess with a lot of things in the body, but don't mess with your knees.
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| Thanks so much for all your replies. I am really working on my patience, it's difficult for me. I'm the kind of person who wants to do it all right away!! I try so hard and have been for so long, and when I see new people just ease through the poses I get annoyed with myself. That's not very yogini like, I know!! However, going everyday has done wonders for my body. I couldn't even touch my toes when I started. I will keep all of your ideas in mind today when I go to class.
Thanks a million!!
PS, Camel is my favorite also, used to be the hardest 
Edited by gainup 2005-03-17 5:09 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| elise - if it helps you be more patient, in other forms of yoga we have many students who NEVER sit between their heels in this pose. I use many props and so do a lot of my teachers. don't sacrifice the health of your knees to the altar of you ego or impatience  |
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| Tourist,
I do use my hand towel folded up in between my thighs and my calves. Lately I've been able to use the towel for the first set and not for the second. This has helped me a lot and I get a good stretch without. The best thing about yoga for me is learning patience. I will just keep plugging along, and really enjoying the poses that are improving. Today I did 1/2 of a toe stand, that was pretty exciting for me, considering my knee issue. That's why I keep coming back, I improve every day. Here's another question. My camel is really nice, but my back bend in 1/2 moon is really shallow. Any advice? 
Thanks again!!! |
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| I'm so glad to find this topic! I have degenerative wearing away of my knee cartilage (chondromalacia) and tried my 1st Bikram class last night. Kneeling, squatting, and bending my knee more than 90 degrees causes pain & inflammation for a couple days.
During fixed firm, half-tortoise, camel, and rabbit, the teacher instructed me to kneel if I could not bend more. But my cartilage is worn away so kneeling hurts. Also the teacher instructed me to NOT use any supports/rolled towels.
Does this mean I can't do Bikram?? I loved all the other poses but the teacher yelling at me during these poses was quite aversive. Any advice? Thank you!!
Edited by LisaT 2005-03-23 4:35 PM
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| LisaT - 2005-03-23 4:33 PM
"I have degenerative wearing away of my knee cartilage (chondromalacia )...."
Me too!!! Hi Lisa,
I definitely think you should keep doing Bikram, don't stop!! In the 6 months I've been going (every day ) my knees have gotten so much stronger. I still can't do fixed firm or even sit on my heels all the way. Well, my left knee can and wants to, but my right knee doesn't. I see such a huge difference in my strength getting out of low cars or even just getting up off the floor. I do kneel in all the butt to heel poses, just have to do it that way. I am about an 1 1/2 inches from touching on my right heel. As far as using props, I quit doing that this week. My teacher doesn't fully reccomend it, but she also wants her students to do what they can. Do you take classes in the morning or afternoon? I find that I can stretch better in the afternoon. Also, right after Camel I do sit "Japanese" style for a moment, I find I can strech even farther down.
Your teacher was yelling at you? I guess some teachers are like that however I haven't experienced that at all!! If anything, my teachers are very supportive and understanding. Could you find another studio or take classes with a different teacher? Did your teacher know before class of your knee problems?
Whatever you do, don't stop, just take it easy, it will get better!! |
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| Thank you Gainup - nice to meet a fellow knee-challenged student.
So you find that kneeling does not exacerbate your knee inflammation or pain? I really want to stay with the Bikram, but it's not worth it if I damage my knees further.
When you began, did you experience a spike in knee pain or inflammation? And if so, how long until it subsided? I iced my knees afterwards and took ibuprofen, and I think they are OK today. Maybe each time I could kneel a little longer...? Did you ever have to opt out of the on-the-knee floor exercises altogether? |
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| Hi again Lisa,
When you say kneeling, do you mean on your knees like camel and just trying to sit on your heels as best as you can? I found that it did not add to my imflamation or pain, more so than usual. My feeling is in my right knee mostly, and it feels like it's wound up tight and just needs to loosen up. Like I said before, even after 6 months, I still can't sit on my heels, but it's getting better. It sounds like your knees may have more issues than mine. I would not want you to hurt yourself any more, but I am a firm believer that Bikram yoga will help as long as you take it slow.
I haven't opted out of a pose so to speak, but I do my poses differently. Going into the poses where I'm supposed to sit on my knees, I do as best as I can and I do so quickly. I don't just sit there, and when I come out of it, I do so sooner than the others.
Oh, I asked my teacher about the yelling thing and she said that some teachers do have that style. She said that some have said she's too nice. I think she pushes just enough, keeps me motivated.
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| Lisa -- You could probably continue with Bikram but I think you need a different teacher. Whoever is teaching you has probably never had an injury or if they have, has since forgotten what it is like. Find someone a little more compassionate and knowledgeable. There is nothing wrong with putting a little padding under your knees! Also, make sure you talk with your teacher before class and let her know of your condition. Very important! |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | LisaT - 2005-03-23 4:33 PM
I'm so glad to find this topic! I have degenerative wearing away of my knee cartilage (chondromalacia) and tried my 1st Bikram class last night. Kneeling, squatting, and bending my knee more than 90 degrees causes pain & inflammation for a couple days.
During fixed firm, half-tortoise, camel, and rabbit, the teacher instructed me to kneel if I could not bend more. But my cartilage is worn away so kneeling hurts. Also the teacher instructed me to NOT use any supports/rolled towels.
Does this mean I can't do Bikram?? I loved all the other poses but the teacher yelling at me during these poses was quite aversive. Any advice? Thank you!!
Your teacher doesn't know anything. Find a new teacher.
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my butt and my heels
