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| Hi Everyone,
I've been doing bikram for almost three years (frequency and regularity of my attendance has varied). I have been 'popping' by twisting my neck and back for as long as I can remember. The urge to do so and the sensation of relief provided have never seemed to be things I learned about, I simply remember doing this from a very young age (in class, for example, using the back of the chair to twist my spine).
First of all, I have never understood the real answer to whether or not popping bones/joints this way is 'bad' for you (it may cause arthritis, some have said, for example).
Secondly, since I have been doing bikram I have begun to 'pop' other joints, such as my hips and ankles. If I recall correctly, at some point I was surprised to feel my hips pop when moving in a certain way (maybe in class, maybe not, but certainly after doing bikram yoga for a good while). I didn't do it intentionally the first time, but gradually I found myself doing so now and then. I recall reading one article (in the NY Times, I believe) in which a doctor claimed that a disadvantage of Bikram yoga is that it causes the joints to be *too* flexible, in an unnatural way and in a way that could be harmful as joints/bones age. Is this popping a sign of increased flexibility or something else? Is there a thing such as too much flexibility?
I will appreciate any ideas, information, or opinions.
Thanks,
Beth
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| Hi Beth, There is such a thing as being too flexable. Were the joints go beyond their normal range of motion. This can happen in Bikrams,when the knee goes to far back in the standing postures, in the neck (in many ways), and in the elbows in half locust they can hyper-extend. Really any joint can go beyond it normal range for many reasons. The ones I listed are the most common in my experience of teaching Bikrams. We are looking for even strength and flexibility through out the body and a balance between strength and flexibilty. I see many people who are hyper flexable in one area to make of for tightness in another and the area is tight, do to lack of strength in the area, so it is all connected. Being all connected the connective tissue quality has alot to do with the popping. The popping does not correlate to increased flexability. The popping has alot of mystery around it, when it seems like it shouldn't. In my "opinion" the popping is the breaking of nitrogen bonds in the connnective tissue. Nitrogen bonds form when two layers of connective tissue have not moved in relation to each other. The more time they don't move, the more bonds you have. The connective tissue like bones continually grow and break down according to use. If there is no movement in an area, the connective tissue will bind to each other to support the body in gravity. When you make your body pop, your moving your body in a way it normally does not do, but you want it too. And if it is cronic, than the body can not hold the change your trying to make. Energy flows through the body. In areas you have fluidity, energy does not build up. In areas you do not have fluidity then the energy builds up and when you try to move through the area it pops. If you pop an area repeatedly the same way, then stop, because it does not create a perment shift and can over time break down a joint. Most likely the area you do have fluidity is taking up to much of your core flow and it is not being evenly spread around. Some people crack more than others depending on the kind of base energy they run. People with alot of air energy crack the most. Earth people the least. Fire people can also get into alot of cracking if they get alot of air( like a fire). Water energy tends not to crack. The mystery is because this is not just a physical event, even through the mind thinks it is. And who can get inside the body and watch it as it pops and have the right eyes or equipment to see what is happening. It is like a quantum event, but thats a whole other topic or not. Hope this helps.
Edited by innerline 2005-04-18 5:33 PM
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| I'm jealous Beth--wish more of my joints would pop darnit! Seriously, if it doesn't hurt, I figure it can't be bad for you. I've been a knuckle cracker for over 40 years--the ole hands are fine. The "popping" sound & sensation results from forcing joint fluid to
very rapidly pass from one side of the joint to the other and I've never found any evidence that it causes a problem. Sounds like your popping doesn't bother you so I'd relish in the freedom of movement--and welcome to the forums! |
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| Thanks everyone so far for the interesting ideas. This forum is great because for me, and many other people I would imagine, bikram is a kind of new fronteir for my body-- not like the usual exercise Americans have been doing and talking about for several years. There are a lot of unknowns and questions.
I am very happy to have an outlet to ask and make suggestions.
Thanks again,
Beth
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
  
Location: A Blue State |
Brother Bruce has got it right. Popping is just the synovial fluid in the joints redistributing
itself. If you pull the liquid into tension, the pressure change when it readjusts causes the
snapping sound. [I'd have to go read to remember whether there's actually cavitation
involved-- formation of vapor -- but I doubt it.] As for any connection to arthritis, I discussed
this phenomenon with a rheumatologist once, and it has no relation to the disease or
to joint damage.
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| I've always been a "cracker"...though not in my back but in my ankles and hips and most recently my shoulders. And since practicing yoga, I've notices big increase in the cracking and popping. I try not to do it intentionally.
I am happy to know that it doesn't cause arthritis, but is fluid/gas buildup in the joints harmful. My boyfriend doesn't see my crack at all (and gets pretty freaked out when my bones do). Or is this one of those things that make some people "special"
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State |
Popping is not damaging to the joints. Some people pop more than
others. It's not a big deal.
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| How does anybody really know what the popping is. I have heard all kinds of explanations. It is a mystery. Fluid does not make load sounds, please. Do your research and you will see that their are many explanations and no one really knows. And if it is repetitive, the joint will deform. It might not make a big difference in ones life because the average person does not need to work at such subtle levels were they can feel all what is going on in a joint and need it to be really balance to to feel good and grow. Average is not normal when we talk about physical bodies. Ever see elderly people knuckles? That is deformation, not neccessarily through popping, but negect and life style. To say cronic popping does nothing over time to a joint is like beleiving eating mcdonald every day will not harm you. Everything that happens effects something. To what degree is the question. Crack your joints all your life and talk to me when your 75 then let me know. If you don't try to crack your joints and it pops that is another thing. If you do not try and it repeats then you want to find out, cause it means something. All this is just belief. No one has figured a way to prove any of the explainations. How would you. Open a live body for the hell of it and start making it pop and have instuments that can figure out what the sound is. And really listen to the sound. Keep listening to the sound of it. Their must be alot of pressure involved to make a sound like that. And try to snap something that would make a similiar sound and volume. Fluid redistributing itself. sorry. The fluid in the joint does have something to do with it becuase it is there and has an effect like everthing in the body. But it is not what makes the sound.Especially since I can pop things in my body that are not joints.
Ya and a elephant just ran under my chair, hear it. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
 
| Every chiro I have asked about this says they really don't know. Everything posted so far is theory. My toes pop as soon as I wake up and bend them and have for somewhere near 30 or more years. My brother has cracked his knuckles at least that long. They aren't swollen or distorted. Old people (or young for that matter) with arthritis have swollen and distorted joints, for sure. But that is from the arthritis. Fact is: bodies are weird! They are amazing and complicated and strange and wonderful. If popping makes one feel looser and better, it is probably ok. Major joints like necks and knees probably would benefit from some stabilizing through exercising the muscles around them but nobody really knows. |
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| I've always had a naturally noisy body. Seriously. it sounds like a rifle volley when I get up in the mornings 
My swami has said that the 'crunching' type noises you get with, say, ankle rotations, is due to nitrogen being released.
Fee |
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| I did a quick search on the web and found many web sites promoting the synovial fluid theory. I don't mean to suggest that this kind of search is anything more than trivial research but, if nothing else, it suggests that a lot of people have bought into this theory. Here's something from The Department of Orthopaedic Surgery at Johns Hopkins University:
Patient Guide to Joint Cracking and Popping
Edward G. McFarland, M.D.
Andrew Cosgarea, M.D.
Brian J. Krabak, M.D.
Is cracking and popping of joints normal?
Cracking and popping of joints is usually normal and most of the time is nothing to be concerned about. Strangely enough the exact reason joints pop and snap is not totally understood. One theory is that the ligaments (tethers that hold the bones together) make these noises as they get tight rapidly when the joint is moving. In some instances, popping may be due to a tendon snapping over or around the joint. Another theory is that nitrogen bubbles in the fluid inside the joint are rapidly brought into or out of solution when the joint is manipulated, such as cracking the knuckles in the hand. These noises with movement of a joint, particularly the knee, may sound like folding stiff paper, and are called "crepitus". These noises are increased frequently after surgery on a joint, although the exact reason is not clear.
Do these sounds need to be treated?
Whatever the cause, these sounds do not need to be specifically treated. There are no long term sequelae of these noises, and they do not lead to future problems. There is no basis for the admonition to not crack your knuckles because it can lead to arthritis. There are no supplements or exercises to prevent these noises.
When should I worry about the cracking and popping of a joint?
The only time to worry about cracking or popping of a joint is if there is pain when the joint pops. Swelling is not normal and should be evaluated if it accompanies the noises. If the joint gets locked or stuck when it pops or cracks then it may indicate a joint problem that should be evaluated. If you are losing motion of the joint, if it is swelling or if you are losing function of the joint, then you should seek medical treatment.
http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/orthopedicsurgery/jointcrack.html
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| OK, I'm going to play Devils Advocate.  I submit that popping in larger joints like Shoulders, hips and knees is a sign that the area needs to be strengthened. Here's why.
My wife was born with a congenital hip problem. Her hips pop when she goes into T pose (Warrior III). And when I say pop I mean loud. I can hear it across the room. She uses T pose to actually put her hips in.
I have a friend who had hip replacement surgery. There is no doubt which hip pops during restorative yoga.
A relative had knee surgery on her left knee. That 's the one that pops.
It may be a sign that the joint it out of alignment.
Edited by MrD 2005-04-20 5:03 PM
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joint flexibility -- "popping"
