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| there was a pretty unflattering article in the New York Times yesterday about bikram yoga. Curious if anyone saw it and what they thought?
Link to article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/30/health/30YOGA.html |
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| I just read it. I imagine there is some element of truth there, especially the part about type "A" personalities trying too hard and getting injured but that can happen in any form of sport or exercise. The same goes for dehydration. If you don't hydrate and replace electrolytes when you sweat a great deal, you probably will get dehydrated. I am no expert on the other subjects as far as injury to muscles or joints. I'm sure you could find doctors who would disagree. The article certainly seemed slanted against the Bikram method and even yoga in general.
We all have free choice to practice Bikram or any form of yoga or nothing at all. To each his own. I love Bikram but it's not for everyone.  |
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| I can strongly relate to the author's concern that the combination of high heat and a room full of type A's can motivate some to HURT themselves by going too far too fast. Especially given the teacher's admonitions that "pain is good for you", or "go a little deeper". I'm convinced that my devotion to the Bikrams program for several years led to some very painful knee surgery last year. My body was speaking more loudly than my teacher many times - I should have listened to it.
My practice seems so much better now that I enter each asana mindfully and as slowly as I care to, and let the heat build from within. I still enjoy doing the postures in Bikram's series (with some modifications), and I know that my practice hastened my recovery from surgery and continues to keep my scoliosis in check.
Oops - probably too much information - but I really agree with the article that the heat and agressiveness of Bikram's can actually cause harm to some - not what yoga should be about.
Harry |
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| Harry, thanks for the reply.
I just started doing Bikram yoga two months ago, and the New York Times article was very timely for me, because I've also just started feeling slight discomfort in both of my knees and in my spine. I imagine I am trying too hard to keep up with others in my class and trying to go "deeper" with every class.
Do you still do Bikram yoga in a heated room? What would you recommend to someone such as me, who is just starting Bikram yoga.
Thanks. |
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| Pretty interesting article and just reinforces common sense doing anything physical. Bikram teachers, at least those I've encountered, aren't insane and don't push you past where you should be--"slow, flow, breathe" |
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| Hi Curt,
Congratulations on completing your first two months with Bikram's. I hope it's the beginning of a life-long (life-changing) journey for you.Whew, I remember what an eye-opener those first few sessions were, and how much I began to look forward to working my way through the postures. Without the foundation of committing to a regular studio practice for the first few years, I know I'd be another yoga dropout by now.
My regret is that I didn't develop a curiosity about other styles of yoga earlier in my practice. Subscribing to a couple of yoga magazines, reading websites, buying a few videos - all helped begin my limited understanding of yoga and what I wanted my practice to be. Somehow, bending sideways until I had that white-hot pain at the base of my spine, or getting low enough in the awkward series to make my knees scream seemed much less important.
When I practice at home, it's in a comfortably warm mirrored room where I can focus quietly inward while moving through each posture. Having done this for awhile now, I notice that when I go to a studio, it's easier to maintain an inner focus without becomming competitive or ignoring what my body's telling me.
If I were starting Bikram's today, I would definitely communicate more strongly with my teacher, and maintain a strong awareness of when a good stretch was turning into pain.
I hope you enjoy your journey.
Harry |
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| Thanks a lot for the advice, Harry.
Which poses in particular do you think I should take it easy on, since my knees are still a little achy? I know fixed-firm pose is off-limits, but I also imagine that awkward pose could cause problems. And what about sanding bow-pulling pose?
Curt |
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| Hi Curt,
The best way to keep your knees healthy would be to have some one-on-one communication with your teacher - maybe even arrange a private session where you could discuss alignment issues and possible modifications to some postures.
In my case, which could be very different from yours, I need to avoid anything that causes mis-aligment of the knee or improper tracking of the patella. The particular pose that I avoid now is the second awkward posture where knees are together and bent and the feet are apart - just too much mis-alignment for my fragile knees.
As for the standing bow-pulling pose - if I start to feel a tweak, I modify my hand position and maybe even slide my hold up to my ankle. In fact, my shoulders usually end up being the limiting factor once my leg is over my head.
The fixed firm pose has become one of my favorites, but only by paying really close attention to maintaining alignment. Being sure to keep the feet exactly vertical when sitting on my ankles, and keeping them vertical and against my thighs when laying back on the floor keeps my knees happy. And, what a great feeling in the quads - I love it!
I'm not sure if this helps or not - we're all different, and I'm definitely not an expert on anyone else's knees. The only rule of thumb that I think can apply to everyone is to stop when it hurts.
Have fun -
Harry |
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| I suggest something you wouldn't hear from a Bikram teacher: Lifting your toes. It puts your shins a tiny bit forward, preventing you from hyperextending the knee or stressing the knee tendons.
Harry, you hit upon a key element: Building heat from within. The more sonovial fluid you build, the more fluidly you'll move. Obviously. That in itself promises a healthier practice. Think about it: We're stiff because we're not ready to move. If we throw ourselves into a hot room, begin to sweat, and force forward bends because some fool aerobics teacher had a car accident with a yoga teacher, got peanut butter in their chocolate and ended up wearing a speedo tells you to force something, is it going to be remotely healthy for us? No.....
Tree pose is really hard on the knee if 1) you're hips aren't open, 2) you're sickling the foot. This asana is at the beginning of the series without any hip work at all. It's bound to strain the knee. Lowering the foot down to the knee (vs. the groin area) is not the answer, because bending there torcs the knee horribly. Particularly since one is bount to sickle the foot since it's just so hard.
Standing stick (Virbhadrasana III to the rest of the world) is not bad for the knees if there's an inner rotation/spiral of the lifted leg, or if one keeps a micro bend (lift the toes) in the standing leg.
I'm sorry anyone comes to Bikram as a beginner. There are much safer, wonderful experiences to have in yoga while learning how to care or your body and joints safely, so at some more experinced point someone could try Bikram without going through all this joint strain. Once you hurt a tendon, it's pretty much done. Why risk it?
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| My self-adapted yogi guru Christine makes a good point about first-time yoga students starting with Bikram. However, if the pull to it attracts anybody to stick it out and explore the other styles and learn the art/science of yoga, that may be a good thing. For instance, if I'd gone to a class relaxing on blankets with wacke music playing and chanting directed (which I have encountered), I'd never have set foot in another yoga studio. Now after several months of Bikram, knowing the teachers and fellow students, learning from Christine, I'm all over the yoga world learning from the writings of the ancient texts of Hatha Yoga (eg., Hatha Yoga Pradipika, Gheranda Samhita, Siva Samhita; the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali; and the various Yoga Upanishads) to what ole Baron Baptiste has to say--and I'm enjoying every darn aspect of it 
YogaDancer - 2004-04-04 6:16 PM
I'm sorry anyone comes to Bikram as a beginner. There are much safer, wonderful experiences to have in yoga while learning how to care or your body and joints safely, so at some more experinced point someone could try Bikram without going through all this joint strain. Once you hurt a tendon, it's pretty much done. Why risk it?
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| A curious mind is a safer mind, IMHO.
Bruce makes me proud. Hopefully he'll keep learning so he'll reach the point where he can see how little I know! 
Christine |
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| Thanks for the suggestion to lift the toes, Christine. It feels subtly different in the shin and knee than when I "plant the big toe" - a nice difference.
Also enjoyed your auto accident scenario - it brings a mental image to mind -
"As he moved through the class giving gentle corrections to his new students, the instructor was secretely amused that so many young yoginis kept glancing admiringly at his 'package'. (The unfortunate fact, however, was that they were giggling inwardly at the peanut butter stains on his speedos.)"
Harry |
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| That day will never come I'm sure madam.
YogaDancer - 2004-04-04 7:42 PM
A curious mind is a safer mind, IMHO.
Bruce makes me proud. Hopefully he'll keep learning so he'll reach the point where he can see how little I know!
Christine |
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| That image was worth taking that auto accident image a step further. After all, Bikram does not profess to be a spritiual person and says, "I'm not, so why should I expect my students to be." So the idea of leaving ego at the door -- even for a teacher -- might be foreign.
There are lots of yoga party tricks for using the Bikram asanas more safely, and for aligning the body properly for more fluidity in movement. Look through this board for the Bhujangasana pointers. Takes all the crunch out of the lower back.
As I age, crunch is less and less enjoyable.
Bruce: Never say never.
Christine |
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| Harry, I was rereading this thread, given my propensity for amusing myself, and realized I'd missed something.
In your Utkatasana (awkward pose), line your feet up so your 2nd toes are parallel to each other. This might mean your heels are somewhat apart. If you line up your big toes, for example, you're at the mercy of bunion-ed toes, or other misalignments. Men's hips are narrower than women's, and this pose is classically done with feet together. However, men's hips are not 0ยบ apart! If you take your feet about 6'' apart, and keep the knees the same distance? Your knees will thank you. When you lower into and out of the pose, isometrically take your feet apart to make room for your tailbone, which should be tucking. Take the WHOLE foot apart, not just one part of it. You'll feel your legs energize and your knees will be protected by active muscles.
For Natajarasana (Dancer), the knee is meant to go straight back and up. In all traditions' versions, actually. Unfortunately, with the hand position of Bikram and the lack of flexibilty of most practitioners (This is in NO WAY a beginning pose!) the knee tends to stray out to the side. This is immediately terribly hard on the tendons around the patella. Flex your foot into a "Barbie" foot. This activates the muscles again and engages the tendons. You might not find your foot as high in the air, but if you concentrate on squaring your hips to the ground instead, you're getting more out of the pose and eventually, as your body opens, (groins, pectinius, psoas, quads and quadranous lumboris -- forgive my spelling) the leg will go up on its own.
I hope these knee tips also help.
Christine |
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| Thanks again for your thoughtful advice, Christine. I've read through your posts several times, and am looking forward to spending time this evening working with your suggestions. Especially in the Dancer, where keeping the hips level and square seems so difficult. It's amazing how beautifully simple that pose looks when David Life or someone is doing it.
Thanks again,
Harry |
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| David, just judging by this thread, I think you're on a healthy track with yoga.
Look at it as a process. We're all into immediate gratification, which in this case is throwing that leg straight up in the air. However, not many of us have the time or the years people like David Life have had to practice yoga. We chose more earthly and less esoteric pursuits. I admit to being into my stuff! So therefore, our Natajarasana leg isn't going far.
Anyway, if you work on the finer points of the asana, or what I refer to as the Yoga Party Tricks, it's really amazing how much stronger an asana is, and how much more smoothly progress is made. Natajarasana -- I forgot Bikram calls it Dandyamana Dhanurasana, which should be Ardha Dhanurasana, but I'm splitting hairs -- is a huge core strength builder. It distracts you with the stability and flexibility demands.
Like Shalabhasana. One would never know it's THE best back strengthener in yoga, because you're so miserable trying to lift up! In Bikram's version, you have the stress on the elbow tendons (not recommended anywhere else) to also distract you. In that pose, think long as in reaching forward with the crown of your head, and backwards with your toes rather than reaching up. When your back is stronger, suddenly you go UP! But jacking your neck around in effort to throw the legs higher? Nope. No integrity and lots of unnecessary risk on the cervical and lumbar spine.
So do continue to practice at home. Slower is definitely better. Really integrate your breath with your movements, too. It makes a huge difference.
I don't care for how Bikram is taught. Mostly, I think he should be prosecuted. However, I find great validity in some of the asana versions when taught and used safely. Some are really interesting variations. Some are biomechanically dangerous. But then, who am I, right?
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| > But then, who am I, right?
Yes and no! You are not right but Christine - but you are right as well ...
And who am I, trying to play with words in a foreign language???
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| Good one
Vero |
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anyone read the NYT article yesterday?
