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| I'm not really a beginner as I practiced yoga several years ago. I practiced on my own using the book "Yoga for You" by Indra Devi. I never came though to make the headstand without support. I always made it in a corner, I put one leg as high as possible against the corner wall then pushed with the other leg to get into the position.
My current apartment doesn't have a corner I can use. Moreover, I want to do it right this time. I tried to do it how it's described, against the wall first. The problem is, as I walk towards the head, my buttocks are supposed to come straight with the back and against the wall but they just don't, they are still far away! It feels like my legs are too short and I can't walk further on my very tiptoes. I cannot then lift the legs and get into the position because it's too hard. I tried to press more on the shoulders and extend my back, not any better. My partner watched the video and doesn't see anything wrong. I don't have bending problems or anatomically short legs. What could be wrong? Did anyone have a problem with "short legs"?
Edited by tmjulia 2009-09-12 3:24 PM
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| Its not likely to be short legs! Though that does conjure some interesting images 
It could be several things, probably most likely is a lack of core strength to give you the lift you need to get your legs up without 'throwing' them up (which is what people tend to do against walls/corners). It could be that you're not pressing down enough through your forearms as you walk your toes in. It could be that your hips are too tight to let you walk in far enough to shift the balance onto your arms, or a combination of factors.
The important thing is that whatever it is, you can get over it. Its not that you have short legs and will never do a headstand. Just persist. 'Practice and all is coming'
Its really worth enrolling in a class where an experienced teacher can help you with these things. |
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| Try facing the wall instead.
Start on your kness with your back towards the wall...your toes touching the wall,place your forearms on the floor so the your elbows are ver close in front of your knees(elbows shoulder with apart)interlace fingers,place head on floor(hands are around back of head).
Come up on your toes....bum up....then step your feet up on to the wall,with your feet only as high as your bum and straighten legs.
You now should be in an upsidedown L shape....with your back nice and upright and your legs parallel to the floor.
If you are balanced you should now be able to bring one knee then the other towards your chest...comming to a bent leg,free standing head stand.....SLOWLY....then only start to extend legs up once you are fully stable and balanced.
allways SLOWLY....any rushing,kicking,jerking,flinging will likly end in falling.
Going to a good teacher will help most of all.
Alison |
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| Hello Julia,
Rather than prattle on about what might be your condition - which would be nearly impossible since a) I have not seen you and b) you have not mentioned anything about you or your life or your practice - I'll opt to respond to you this way.
There are requisite actions to be cultivated in the student's body before directing them to a full sirsasana. Some students have some of the actions and they are obviously directed to finish the requisites or preparatory work. Others have none of these actions and need to be directed to the beginning. These things are all assessed by the trained eye of a skilled yoga teacher. A book can not give you the feedback craved by the individuality of your mind, your body, and your soul.
It is so fascinating how "involved" we get with the anatomical structure, the overdevelopment of core musculature, and the anal retentive nature (or dogma, if you will) of coming up into the pose in a specific way. There are some ways with integrity and some without. There are some ways that are safe and others that are less so. However the fecund part of the pose is being in the pose and these days, after ten years of teaching, I tend to work with students to get them into the poses so that they can harvest the fruits. You do not need a six-pack to come into the pose and most bipeds have strong enough core muscles or they'd fold over in a pile at midday.
That is NOT to say "discontinue working on musculo-skeltal weakness" but rather to say "do not get hung up spending your life on those having missed the pose altogether.
Please consider working with a teacher so that you develop the contraction of the serratus anterior crucial to protecting the shoulder joint, can move the spine into the body, and have the ability to support your body weight on the forearms so that your cervical spine is not damaged either in the moment or over time..
gordon
Edited by purnayoga 2009-09-15 5:55 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Washington DC | Namaste! Sirsasana or head stand is considered as the king of all Asanas. It is not very difficult to do this pose but many times people injured their neck (cervical spine) while start this pose without any expert’s practical guidance. I wish you all the best |
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| Reporting the result...
I've learned how to do a headstand first again a couch back, then against a chair back which are slightly curvy. My buttocks simply will not go against any flat surface (given I'm rather skinny). When I'm in the position, I'm almost not touching the chair, because the main support is in the shoulders. I thought (2-3 months ago) that I do it so perfectly, so I would be able to do it without any support. However, when going into the position without support, it feels I don't have enough time to straighten my legs before I lose balance.
Edited by tmjulia 2010-01-05 7:06 PM
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Location: boston | I agree with Veteran. Its a king of all asanas and its not very hard to learn..Here is my tip
a. First warm up your body with any exercise of your choice for ten minutes.
b. Then come near a wall and kneel on the mat facing the wall. Now clasp your fingers and keep it in front of you around 6 inches away from the wall, set the forearm also on the mat,now set the crown of your head on the floor and snuggle the back of your head against the clasped hands. Now start clicking your feet all the way up till your feet touches the wall behind you and that's it.
c. You might fall again and again during the few initial chances. So keep practicing just for five minutes every day you will get your body upside down in 10-15 days. As a beginner, stay in this posture for 5 seconds and gradually add 5 to 10 seconds to your stay every day.
Best of luck
Gauri |
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| You say you fall when you straighten your legs. Don't straighten your legs then  You will still get the benefits of being in an inversion and you will slowly begin to develop whatever it is you need to get into the pose. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| You should never do a headstand against a wall! It will restrict you. You must learn first how to fall before doing a headstand. The process of learning how to do a headstand is far more important. With a wall the spine becomes compressed.Learn slowly slowly each and every detail of the very beginnings of a headstand (even the process of putting your head on the floor), noticing your breathing very clearly and not doing anything that makes you hold your breath even if it s a milisecond, with lots of emphasis on counter movements and learning to fall especially, and you will wonder why you struggled with it at all. |
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Expert Yogi
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| vibes - there are definitely two schools of thought on this and you and I are clearly in the different schools. Headstand can be taught and learned very well at a wall without restrictions. The wall helps remove the fear that often comes with learning this pose, particularly for people who may not have a good sense of where their body is in space. And some students may have conditions or injuries that mean they should not be doing a lot of falling.
I will say though, that once the student is able to move away from the wall, going back to the wall can feel restricted. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Interesting points tourist! Thanks. Generally with a wall, one puts their head on the floor and brings their legs up to the wall without the body adapting. This also often occurs without a wall too. The main part of learning a headstand is the conquering of the fear of falling. Because you will never comfortably go into headstand with even the slightest bit of fear. That is why I said its important to learn to fall. Just like a baby learning to walk or stand on his/her feet must learn to fall. So it becomes a gradual learning process. If a baby is forced to stand without his/her body adapting and without learning how to fall, they will always have a fear, which will make standing uncomfortable,which inturn strains muscles and breathing and in the case of headstand compresses vertabrae. > In the case of injuries its especially important to learn to fall, so that he/she isnt tense when coming out of the headstand. Also ease of reverseability from headstand is essential. Infact for any posture to be good the way one reverses out of and the process of moving into it is so important.
The process of learning how to learn to do a headstand is so much more beneficial than the headstand itself. Just throwing your legs onto a wall is not giving you the full massive range of benefits that one can get. |
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Expert Yogi
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| vibes - I have a student right now who could use some of your advice for learning to be calm in learning headstand. He grimaces and his face goes very red - NOT what a teacher wants to see in anyone's headstand!  I tell him to not go up until he can do it without the grimace, but sadly he is male and does not always listen to me...  |
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Veteran
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Location: Singapore | Headstand NOT against a wall!!!!
Then it would be easier to injure the NECK!!!!
May be vibes, I am not so knowledgeable like you. But cannot be agreeing with this...I am sorry.
Namaste
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Extreme Veteran
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| Yes-never headstand with a wall. Put it this way.Force a baby to stand against a wall and hold him their, when he is not ready to. Or allow him to slowly learn to stand through experience,adapting,sensory motor learning and developing. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Lol-tourist. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Washington DC | Headstand without support against the wall is a good idea for young people only (that I think) not for older people, who come to practice yoga not gymnastics. Headstand against the wall is always considered as a safe method to learn headstand for the people, who are heavy weight, not flexible, away from exercises and people over 35 – 40 yrs. This is my idea that I follow and I have been doing this on the way of yoga teaching from last 30 years. However, I am ready to learn things from people (yoga teachers) here always, haha.
Thanks
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Veteran
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Location: Singapore | Wow!
What great pic. of Pincha Mayurasana
I like it sir.
Thanks |
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| Ah man Tonmoy--the wallless headstand is my favorite party trick--everybody is amazed a big old guy like me can do it--I love doing it in the elevator at my office--the door opens am I'm standing on my head--surprize! |
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| Tonmoy-Headstand without a wall is absoloutely fine for the elderly as long as emphasis is on the process and not the end result. I know a 68 year old man who with no headstand experience got taught by my teacher how to do it for the first time over a year ago now. He is no longer on the blood pressure regulating tablets he used to take. Who ever considers the wall a safe way of doing a headstand us not seeing the complete picture. But at the end of the day we only know what we know,so we have to stick with that. |
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Location: Washington DC | Bruce - 2010-01-14 9:53 AM
Ah man Tonmoy--the wallless headstand is my favorite party trick--everybody is amazed a big old guy like me can do it--I love doing it in the elevator at my office--the door opens am I'm standing on my head--surprize!
You are The Great Yoga master Bruce, you can do it, as you have been doing it since 20 years may be. But if anybody wants to start at your age then I would definitely guide him against a wall. Thats I wanted to tell...
Thanks for your comment |
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Location: Washington DC | vibes - 2010-01-14 10:48 AM
Tonmoy-Headstand without a wall is absoloutely fine for the elderly as long as emphasis is on the process and not the end result. I know a 68 year old man who with no headstand experience got taught by my teacher how to do it for the first time over a year ago now. He is no longer on the blood pressure regulating tablets he used to take. Who ever considers the wall a safe way of doing a headstand us not seeing the complete picture. But at the end of the day we only know what we know,so we have to stick with that.
vibes, I appreciate your thoughts and ideas about headstand. The example you have stated about a 68 years old man and how he was guided by your respected teacher is really wonderful. But as a teacher may be I am not so strong to let my beginners students start headstand without support of a wall. However, after a few weeks they find the way to do this pose without wall. Thanks for sharing vibes |
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Extreme Veteran
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| They will find the way to do a wallless headstand even better if they start without a wall, as they are missing a huge part of the benefits in the process of learning to lengthen the spine rather than compress it. |
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| @vibes
Your point may be well taken but the rationalization of it - spinal compression specifically due to the use of a wall in the pose - needs a bit more detail in order to chat about it further.
gordon |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Good point gordon. To do a headstand safely and receive benefits wohout injuries,its important to move with the whole self & body. Sensing and feeling and observing your sensing and feeling into where you are comfortable in the posture. You have to go through a process of exploration to improve. If just putting head near a wall or even without a wall and throwing your legs up, you wont be able to feel the very beginning of a bloodrush or nausea. If you go through the movements extremely slowly to get into a headstand including the very beginning of just moving with the whole of your body to put the head on the floor, it gives you a chance to feel the very beginning of nausea or discomfort such as bloodrushing to the head.So you can use time to measure and increase time to rest..
There should be much emphasis on slow movements to soften the muscles of the neck and lengthen them.Also its necessary for the spine and to be soft.
Falling should also be learnt. It is neccessary to stand on your head, as a fall could severely injure you. It should be done so falling is light, simple and comfortable.Then there isnt any fear of standing on the head and crazy movements arent made. |
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| Wow!
Thanks |
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| @vibes
Interesting offering but it didn't really address the pragmatics of your claim.
Your reference was students should not use a wall for sirsasana as they would miss...
...the process of learning to lengthen the spine rather than compress it.
So I am curious how the spine is compressed by doing Sirsasana using a wall.
Edited by purnayoga 2010-01-17 7:35 PM
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Extreme Veteran
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| I meant that students whether or not using a wall can compress the spine. However there will be less compression,and more lengthening of the neck without a wall. Using a wall means there will be some fear of falling (or otherwise there wont be use of the wall at all). Thats why I mentioned that much should be done on the process of learning to stand on the head ,learning to fall , learning to soften the neck, so that there is no compression of the spine. With even the slightest fear, there will be compression. Once the fear is removed you are 90 percent of the way to a safe light headstand. |
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Veteran
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| Coming late to this discussion but I do think that the bottom line is that you have to teach your students where their bodies are and not where your beliefs are. I will happily concede that the process of learning headstand without a wall has benefits, but as someone who teachers older, less out of shape students, many of my students could not begin to think about headstand unless there was a wall. Learning how to fall gently is not an option for some of my students.....but I want to give them the experience of headstand.
I emphasize using the whole forearm and hand strongly against the floor, using the head for balance but not for weight bearing. The wall is invaluable to help people learn how not to jam their necks. So I hope that we can all agree that yoga has room for people of all abilities? |
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Extreme Veteran
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| What is far more important than the headstand itself is the process of moving into it. This applies to people of all ages and abilities. It is worth getting rid of goals (I know yoga teacher trainings have goals and aims etc-but this is the sign of a poor teacher training) and enjoy/play gently with the process which could take you beyond your aims/goals. For many as mentioned above the thought of headstand induces fear. Trying to achieve a goal is a poor form of stress which limits our progress. By removing our goal (or obstacles), we can go through the goals and beyond. In other words its is of great value for students to be comfortable and go to where there comfort is and not go beyond. |
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Veteran
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Location: Singapore | The teachers all over the world guiding there beginners students (especially older) to perform headstand against the wall and this is a safe way to learn headstand. Every body knows that one need to move towards the final position of headstand slowly step by step and not faster. I also agree that using the whole forearm and hand strongly against the floor, using the head for balance but not for weight bearing what Seekaer101 said.
But don’t agree to encourage people start headstand without wall...............
Namaste
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| Bruce - 2010-01-14 10:53 PM
Ah man Tonmoy--the wallless headstand is my favorite party trick--everybody is amazed a big old guy like me can do it--I love doing it in the elevator at my office--the door opens am I'm standing on my head--surprize!
It's good you're not pulled back to the lower floor by the guard, lol. Maybe headstand gets us a good internal massage but that should never be tried in the elevator otherwise, guards attention will be upon us always. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Well it seems to all be down to what one knows. One can only teach what one knows.So all these teachers world over who use a wall probably just dont know other techniques. In the same way Years ago some people used to think standing against a wall (not upside down) is the best way to improve posture, until better methods of improving posture were discovered. The reason you dont agree with encouraging people to learn to stand on their head without a wall is because it probably is the only way you know.You probably do not know the many ways of learning to fall out of a headstand to remove fear of headstand either. But thats fine. |
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Veteran
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Location: Singapore | vibes - 2010-01-18 7:04 PM
Well it seems to all be down to what one knows. One can only teach what one knows.So all these teachers world over who use a wall probably just dont know other techniques. In the same way Years ago some people used to think standing against a wall (not upside down) is the best way to improve posture, until better methods of improving posture were discovered. The reason you dont agree with encouraging people to learn to stand on their head without a wall is because it probably is the only way you know.You probably do not know the many ways of learning to fall out of a headstand to remove fear of headstand either. But thats fine.
Wait...the whole world is going to invite you to teach headstand. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Id love to, many people could do with it, especially politicians,bankers to mention a few,but im not a teacher. I did learn how to do a headstand with a wall originally many years back. I even managed without a wall. Then when I went to another teacher, I had to forget all that I learnt in the past (as best as I could), and relearn, and what a huge difference it made. Also others in the class (some of whom have never done headstand without a wall) were able to safely go into headstand without the fear of falling and some who said their faces used to turn beetroot red were no longer turning so red, while being comfortable and able to lightly move in and out of the headstand. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Wait-I remember Ben Gurion-first primeminister of Israel learnt to stand on his head at an elderly age. Many Indian yogis were shocked that he did it without a wall learning it at such a late stage in his life.Apparantlly he learnt it to improve hs metabolism and blood pressure. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Washington DC | Oh vibes, you are still here in headstand. Well, I am travelling and in South America right now. So I can come to practice with you if you wnat.
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Extreme Veteran
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| Cool! Whereabouts? Im up for meeting up. I love South America. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Washington DC | March 5th I am again leaving for Washington DC, US. Where are you? |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Im a bit of a nomad at the moment. But if planning to reach Washington or the massive south America, il let you know. |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: Washington DC | I am looking forward to meet you vibes.
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Extreme Veteran
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| stevenj- what one earth is a spotter? why would you want to hold your legs? |
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Veteran
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| A spotter is someone who stands near you in gymnastics or cheerleading, etc. to make you feel more confident that you won't get hurt if you fall because they'll catch you. In this context, a spotter would take the place of a wall. You wouldn't kick up onto them, but if you began to fall over, they could help to make sure that you don't hurt yourself. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| In that case a spotter is a stupid thing to aid in doing a safe headstand as one is relying on an external element. Nobody will help you as much as you can help yourselves. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Thanks seeker! |
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| would you also suggest learning handstand and forearm balance without a wall? |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Do you suggest learning to stand on your 2 feet without a wall or should we walk around with a wall to lean on when we want to stand? At the end of the day though its our freedom to do what we want to do. Simple as that my friend dhanurasana. |
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| i typically see small children learning to stand on their two feet with the assistance of a coffee table or yes, even a wall, long before they are walking unassisted.
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you didn't answer my question
Edited by dhanurasana 2010-01-29 11:51 AM
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| Lol. I answered you are free to do what you want.
The children learning to stand with the assistance of a coffee table and a wall also learn to fall as part of the process of learning to stand. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| This in fact is part of the process for the stage of walking in ones development. As walking is a controlled fall-a balance of stability and instability. If we were just stable, we wouldnt be able to get around, unless someone puts you in a shopping trolley and wheels you around being stable-have a go, but watch out for steep hills. |
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| vibes - 2010-01-29 5:24 AM In that case a spotter is a stupid thing to aid in doing a safe headstand as one is relying on an external element.
Somewhere in this thread you equate baby learning to stand on feet to adult learning to stand on head.
I see there are differences:
(1) Baby bone is less brittle, baby height is perhaps 1/6 of an adult. If baby is elevated to 6 feet off the ground on a table, would you still allow the baby to learn to stand at that height alone (without assistance)? Yes or No?
(2) Baby does not have danger of serious injury to the neck from falling unless they also try to stand on head. Agree?
(3) The assistance given to baby is to keep the baby on the ground. Who is saying no assistance is necessary? Agree?
Namaste |
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Extreme Veteran
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| 1) Id be around to help the baby if necessary.
2)Babies/toddlers often stand on their head. Mine certainly did, and never suffered.
3)Its well known that corrective standing baby tools such as baby walkers impair a babies development. |
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Veteran
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| Vibes, sorry to contradict you but the latest research on infant development doesn't support the statement that baby walkers impede or inhibit or impair a babies development. There are as many pediatricians that support them as those who do not. The empirical data don't support that assistance devices have any long term effect on that speed with which babies eventually walk on their own and certainly there are no data to support any long term effect on child's walking, leg development, etc. So it's not only not well known, but it is more opinion than anything else. Like all firmly held opinions, people can selectively find data to support whichever side they want. So I am not advocating the use of walkers, or the use of walls in headstand, etc. I am only saying that there can be valid opinions on both sides since there are not clear facts that support or disprove either position, only opinions.
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| Hi Seeker. Its good to contradict.No need for sorry. I am saying that in the long run - later in life, one can be effected if forced into standing before the nervous system has formed the necessary patterns of movement to get there. Even in adulthood one can suffer from certain ailments, stemming from poor organization, due to a lack of strong foundation, if one is forced to walk before crawling. Ive done two profesional baby massage teacher trainings, aswell as having studied and written a thesis on baby developmet . Much evidence strongly agree on this. Yes eventually babies will learn to walk. However if small details in a babies development are missed problems will naturally occur.Even problems of speech and breathing can occur from lack of using the sucking action (for milk) well. Interestigly enough they can often be improved by going through them later. |
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| Ah, I see. thanks for the clarification. |
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Expert Yogi
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| One big difference between standing on our feet and standing on our heads. Standing on our feet is probably 95% instinctive and 5% learned and it is learned at a very young age. Standing on our heads is 100% learned and is learned (for the sake of this conversation - even those who learn headstand as children must re-learn it) in adulthood. Children who are not successful in learning to stand and walk would be considered to have a distinct disadvantage to living a typical life. Yoga students who never learn to do headstand away from a wall will probably be able to function quite well and live a long and productive life.
For the record, I am an early childhood educator and infant toddler educator and have worked with children for about 35 years, the past 15 with children under the age of 3, the past 10 with children under the age of 18 months. I have observed and guided many, many children in the adventure of learning to stand and walk. |
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Extreme Veteran
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| Ofcourse. Even people who learn to do triangle with or without a wall can live a long and productive life. That is not what this thread is about.LOL |
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| vibes - 2010-02-02 12:56 AM
Even people who learn to do triangle with or without a wall can live a long and productive life.
This is a total myth!!!
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Veteran
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Location: Uppsala, Sweden | If you experience your legs as too short, when trying ordinary headstand, then you probably should not be too eager trying to get into headstand from the lotus position (urdhva padma shirshasana) - I guarantee you that is an experience of really 'short legs', and a asana that requires both flexibility and a lot of core strength, as well as technique and bodily/spatial awareness.
For a beginner however, the problems are similar, i.e. initially a lack of core strength and flexibility etc., and that is why you should learn sarvangasana (shoulder stand) before trying shirshasana (headstand).
When you have acquired the ability to stand on your shoulders (not your cervical vertebrae) with a rather straight body, breathing without too much constriction for at least a couple of minutes, then you might be ready to try headstand - preferably for the first few times with a teacher standing by, or (if you have not learnt how to fall, and/or are afraid) against a wall.
It is also helpful to learn the chakrasana (wheel, but not the urdhva dhanurasana version), by which I mean from lying on your back (after sarvangasana sequence with halasana etc), on inhale bring your feet/legs up and over your head while putting down your hands beside your ears and pushing down into the floor while rolling over into chaturanga dandasana. You can also practice the forwards tumbling motion, as it usually would happen if falling out of headstand, by gently moving into halasana (plow) from adho mukha shvanasana (downward facing dog). Practicing these rolling methods safely (under the guidance of a teacher), will prepare you for the very likely contingency of falling out of headstand 'the wrong way', i.e. tumbling forwards, because then you would not be falling on your back or ass as much as rolling down out of the headstand.
Small children generally do not have the necessary core strength and stability to do headstand safely, and thus they are more likely to compress their cervical vertebrae, or maybe even hurt themselves, than to receive any benefits from the asana. Elderly students need to practice headstand cautiously, for obvious reasons, but the potential benefits are far greater in adults than for children doing headstand - as long as there are no medical reasons as to not do shirshasana.
Edited by Iraputra 2010-02-27 7:43 AM
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| Small children do headstands and variants playfully. Sometimes with and sometimes without compressing vertbrae. Its not about core strength. Core strength is nothing more than hype. |
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getting into headstand and "short legs"