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| i don't understand why fighting amounst religions is for the greater good
we all beleave in the same thing we all no theres a god we all go to one place
even if it heaven or paradise as some say
but wat i don't under stand is how we got here were we all came from i am a chatholic yes and i think of this alot the scientific method of how we came here is understandable but the reliougious matter is god creatated the world and made the 1st man and woman but the thing is did he make more if not then we are all brothers and sister there for we would be marrying our own sibling i am confused about religion and don't no wat i am anymore therefor i 've been trying to figure the impossible out why are we here, how did we get here , i am faithful to my reliogion and recently something happend those people that knock on ur door to tell u to check out there church well they ask me wat is my religion i said chalotic and they just looked at me
like i wasn't human like i wasn't one of them which got me to thinking about all of this stuff if god made the world then why just why do we try to find anouther way on how we got here on how all this stuff happend
many diffrent religions , buddism ,hunduism, christanity and much more we all beleave somehow that there is a suprem being out there that made us we all beleave that when we die we go to a wonderful place but yet ......all of these matters come up to were people try to say that our religion is not right and
join theres i'm so confused about this stuff i just had to right it down if ya'll have something to say plz say it for i am confused and been thinking alot about this
thankyou
alyssa  | |
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| Dear Alyassa: We can talk months on this. But, let me give you some pointers. I like your avatar.
1. Religion = Religaire = Bind in values. Each society or group has to possess some values to be able to work. The values can be related to behavior, marriage, sex, parking, cleanliness, etc. Without bindings society can not work. The group of values created for a particular group is its Religion.
2. Philosophy = Explanation given for the existence of the universe and the place of humans in that Universe.
3. Yoga = Practices developed to realize the number 2.
4. Philosophical Religion = Religious practices meant to take one to 2.
5. Organized Religion = Organization originally created for supporting members within a particular group. With organization, one gets support, and motivation.
6. Organized Church = An institution created in the name of 5., but actually for political economic advantage including invading others in the name of religion and looting them, or conversion of other societies into one's own faith.
The problem in your confusion deals with 6. and 5. and 4. And, there are many who are confused about 2. 3. and 4. And, there are some who try to escape this confusion by calling themselves Atheist. But, actually, they form another religion called Atheism.
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| Hi Yogagirl,
You can approach religion from to aspects: the exoteric (the outer teachings) and the isoteric (the inner teachings).
People who focus on the exoteric aspects of their religion tend to notice difference, while those who focus on the isoteric aspects tend to recognise the sameness of all religious practises.
Not long now before David Beckham officially moves to U.S soccer... 
Jonathon
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| okay idon't really get the 123456 thingy could u kinda make it idk hmm simlper and ty and how dose one see both aspects of these things the inner and outer i mean kinda wat is the diffrence and am i the person looking inner or outer
i would realy apreciate it if u could explain the 123456 thing again and
YA I NO US IS SO GONNA KICK SOME BUT NOW !!  | |
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| Hi Alyssa,
From a non-dualistic point of view, there is no Hindu, no Sikh, no Muslim, no Christian, no Buddhist, etc...
On a more mundane level, people have different capacities, attitudes or dispositions. Some people are more inclined to play soccer, others are more fit to play football, or baseball, etc., etc.
Looking at things from a higher point of view tends to level things out.
Hope this helps.
Namaste,
Kaos
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| so wat ur saying if u take away the religion names there just us
and wat is muduame ?(spelling) | |
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| yogagirl - 2007-07-11 2:52 PM
so wat ur saying if u take away the religion names there just us
If you take away the naming of things, the "this" and "that", you end up with Suchness, (sunyatta).
This is Emptiness. Not in the sense of "nothingness". But empty, yet full of potential.
It sounds so simple, yet this might take a lifetime or even numerous lifetimes to realize.
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| yogagirl - 2007-07-11 2:18 PM
i would realy apreciate it if u could explain the 123456 thing again and
QUOTE]
Let me explain 1. now. Once you OK it, I shall go to 2. etc.
1. Religaire means to bind in values. When one lives in a society, they can not behave as they like. There should be some guideline so that the life the society will be comfortable, enjoyable, and smooth, considering the good of all people in that society. So, a set of values is created. Do you agree with this? This set of values is called Religion to be followed by that Society. | |
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| oh okay i get it | |
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| yogagirl - 2007-07-11 4:05 PM
oh okay i get it
Great. Now, let us go to 2.
Philosophy = It can almost be assumed that only human beings out of all animals think in a deeper way. A human being always wants to achieve certain understanding which makes him/her comfortable, happy, balanced, peaceful, satisfied (may be this is a better word). In this process, the human being tries to place all the phenomenon around them in a proper perspective, arrangement, thought, logic, etc. This logic is then refined by taking logic from the past researchers, adding one's own, modifying, refining, etc. At the end certain understanding is formed as to the nature of phenomenon. This understanding has to be solid and not flaky. This is philosophy.
What do you think? | |
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| okie dokie get that one | |
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| yogagirl - 2007-07-12 2:10 PM
okie dokie get that one
OK Now,let us go to the third.
Yoga = Practice to realize the Philosophy. Unfortunately, this is where you are going to have a problem. Since, the earliest Philosophy in the world is that from India, in the prevedic or vedic period. This time frame is beyond 7000 B.C. and wrongly proven by Western Scholars as 2000 BC (and recently, totally proven by Western scientist to be before 7000 and not yet publicly accepted and advertised so.) Anyway, what happens in the Philosophy is that the Solid Truths which survive the tide of the Time only are considered Philosophy or Classical Philosophy or Real Philosophy. Other thoughts are considered logic or studies or researches, etc. The philosophy which survives the time is called : Agama in the Sanskrit Language and also called Sanatana Dharma. It can not be eradicated by the time. And, you can clearly see that Vedic Philosophy is standing completely sound today even after invasions of Muslims, Huns, Shaks, etc. and missionary work of Buddhists, and Christians in India. Also, Vedic scholars do not go out to preach their philosophy as missionaries as it is not necessary.
This Philosophy in Vedas is to be gotten from a proper source, preferably one with Sanskrit Background. I am not prepared to discuss this point here.
Anyway, the truth in the Vedic Philosophy is called brahman which later came to be known as realization, self realization, nirvana, enlightenment, being son of god, living in the kingdom of god, etc. etc.
As you can imagine to reach this realization one has to do some changes in the current way of life. This is called practice and all such practice is Yoga Practice. This practice itself can be slightly chaning with the time due to the practice is dependent on the environment.
Now, even the practice has been properly organized over the time and it has become branches of Yoga.However, in the Classical Yoga System, the practice is organized in a non sectarian way, with flexibility for modifications. This is Yoga Sutras of Patanjali. And that is why Yoga Sutras have remained as the Text of Yoga Practice since 300 B.C. till now. And, of course, shall remain forever.
I hope you understand what Yoga means now. | |
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| i don't get that one are u saying yoga is a religion or was a religion ? | |
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| So far, I covered only 1. 2. and 3. In 1. I told you what Religion means. In 2. I told you what Philosophy means. You stated you understood 1. and 2. Now, in 3. I am stating what Yoga means. That is a practice to reach tthe truth stated in Phiosophy. I am not stating anything about Religion Vs Yoga yet. As I described so far, Religion are values that bind a society. Yoga is a practice to be done by a person to realize the truth stated in Philosophy. Get it?
yogagirl - 2007-07-12 5:09 PM
i don't get that one are u saying yoga is a religion or was a religion ? | |
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| oh okay i get it yoga is the practices that teaches u the truth or helps u find the truth stated in numba 2 ? yes no did i get it ? | |
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| No, it is not the practices that teach us the truth. Philosophy is that which teaches us the truth. Yoga gives us various things to practice such as exercises, meditation, chanting, etc. which are supposed to change us in such a way that we realize the truth given in the Philosophy. Get it now?
yogagirl - 2007-07-13 9:15 AM
oh okay i get it yoga is the practices that teaches u the truth or helps u find the truth stated in numba 2 ? yes no did i get it ? | |
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| ohhh okay duh now i get it lol thank you | |
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| yogagirl - 2007-07-13 9:15 AM
oh okay i get it yoga is the practices that teaches u the truth or helps u find the truth stated in numba 2 ? yes no did i get it ?
You cannot get it by thinking about it alone. You realize it by "getting" the essence (ontology) or in other words, experiencing it.
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| oh so expericing it (spellcheck)
and one can experince it by ?
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| wait for get wat i said on the top i think i no how u experince it my bad
ready for the next one  | |
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| Good. Now, let us go to 4.
4. Philosophical Religion - If you understand 1, 2, 3, you can understand that certain practices developed in a society which a) give values that bind the members of that society in a particular way so that life can continue with peace,harmony as well as b) which shall facilitate the final emancipation or realization of truth.
Thust, the values can be a) Social - called as Dharma in Sanskrit. and b) Personal - called as Personal Dharma.
That religion which provides for values which are supposed to lead one to Philosophical Truth is called "Philosophical Relgion". For example:
Capitalism is a set of values which increase the comfort, even wellbeing may be, financial conditions of a society when the set of Capitalistic values are followed. No problem. it can be called Capitalism Religion. But, NO Philosophical Truth is realized by this. So, it is NOT a Philosophical Religion.
Got it?
yogagirl - 2007-07-13 9:24 AM
ohhh okay duh now i get it lol thank you | |
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okay so ur saying that capitalism (which is the economic system right) is not a philosphical reliogion . hmmm so sofar i get it numer 1 was stating that with society comes with values which helps us to work and certian values for a certian group is religion right
and as for numba 2 that the hardest one i look it up in the wikiedia and all i got out of it was that it's a question like my questions were did we come from why are we here kinda thing
numba 3 is the practice of numba 2 which we can relize numbba2 with meaditation and asanas
numba 3 leads us through a spiritual journey to were we find numba 2 right
and numba four is a branch of numba 2 which is concerned with the philosophical study of religion including stuff about the existince of god and the value between religion and science right ? idk my head hurt from looking all this stuff up librarys rule but my head hurt am i kinda getting this ?
Edited by yogagirl 2007-07-13 5:24 PM
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| You are doing wonderful. Just to conclude 4. Capitalism, Marxism, Communism are actually kind of relgions with some values to make the society work fine. But, they are not philosophical religions. Generally, when people use the word 'Religion', they mean Philosophical Religion, such as Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Hinuism, etc.
We shall see the next one once you ok this. And, when your head stops hurting.
yogagirl - 2007-07-13 5:23 PM
okay so ur saying that capitalism (which is the economic system right) is not a philosphical reliogion . hmmm so sofar i get it numer 1 was stating that with society comes with values which helps us to work and certian values for a certian group is religion right
and as for numba 2 that the hardest one i look it up in the wikiedia and all i got out of it was that it's a question like my questions were did we come from why are we here kinda thing
numba 3 is the practice of numba 2 which we can relize numbba2 with meaditation and asanas
numba 3 leads us through a spiritual journey to were we find numba 2 right
and numba four is a branch of numba 2 which is concerned with the philosophical study of religion including stuff about the existince of god and the value between religion and science right ? idk my head hurt from looking all this stuff up librarys rule but my head hurt am i kinda getting this ?
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| okay lets do this | |
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| Wonderful. Next.
5. Organized Religion - You will accept that a motivation for following any rules or philosophical logic, etc. shall grow when followed in a group. This is like going to a group Yoga Class, group ToastMaster's Speech clas, etc. etc. In this way, the people of the same values come together in order to foster their own development in those values. This happens in Music, Sport, Health, Vegetarianism, Yoga Bulletin Board such as yoga.com, and in our particular case, with Religion. This is Organized Religion.
Got it?
yogagirl - 2007-07-13 9:15 AM
oh okay i get it yoga is the practices that teaches u the truth or helps u find the truth stated in numba 2 ? yes no did i get it ? | |
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| yes i did get it so like soccer would be a sport which is an organized religion because we all come to practice for the love of the game and to learn more right | |
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| Good Sister Yogagirl. Now, only the last topic remains:
6. Organized Church or Institution with Economics/Politics behind it. :
First, you have to understand that Religion is must. Without Religion one can not survive in the society. However, Religion is meant for social living. So, it is different for different society. A religion in USA will not work in Iraq or Ethiopia. Next, one has to understand that Philosophical religion deals partially with Philosophy. And, Philosophy is for finding truth. Truth is one, and not dependent on society or geography. Therefore, that part of Religion must be same in all the Philosophical Religions. And, this truth is found thousands and thousands of years ago. Because, though Geography and Societies are chaning, the truth does not change.
This truth is called Brahman. And, as it is a Sanskrit word, of course, it is first described in the Indian Vedic Texts, regardless of hypothetical fabricated theory of Aryans moving from Europe to India in 2000 BC. Anyway, this truth is known for thousands of years before. As it is in Sanskrit, non Sanskrit cultures have problems to accept it and they want to state either same or different truth in another language or statements. And, no doubt, they shall come back in circle, to the same truth. They can call it Kingdom of God, or Emptiness, or whatever, they shall come back to it.
But, the worst thing, apart from the above logic is: the organized religion has one naughty child. That takes birth when certain members of it realize that the members of organization can be manipulated to gain political and economic advantage for themselves. They also know that more the members in cogreation, more such advantage will come. So, they set out to spread this truth in the name of original founder of Religion. This institution is called Organized Church. Some of them are genuine and most of them are notorious. They play various tricks such as helping poor in disadvantage at the cost of conversion to their church. Or, they give them option of conversion and when refused, they attack those societies or rape their women to produce children of the new religion. Thus the new *******s are the new members of their Church now. Some of them also do not pay heed to the original founder. For example, original founder may be wearing simple clothes and eating simple food. But, these fools wear expensive dresses, live in palaces, and drive in Mercedeces.
Real Organized Religion needs NO missionary work as it is sufficient to meet the needs of an organized society and each society shall have their necessary binding values. What is needed is sharing of the Philosophy if one feels their philosophy is correct. In this case, they should not mix the Religion at all. And, this Philosophy should either match or one should be accepted over the other for the better level of truth. However, all the truths ultimately merge into one truth, called Brahman.
Spreading of the Philosophy without getting into the Organized Church, and while maintaning one's own Organized Religion is the challege of today's Yoga.
OM shantiH
yogagirl - 2007-07-13 9:15 AM
oh okay i get it yoga is the practices that teaches u the truth or helps u find the truth stated in numba 2 ? yes no did i get it ? | |
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| kulkarnn - 2007-07-14 1:49 PM
... maintaning one's own Organized Religion is the challege of today's Yoga.
yogagirl - 2007-07-13 9:15 AM
Hi kulkarnn,
Does that mean you are maintaining "Kulkarnnism"?
K | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Love it, Love it, Love it...LOVE IT. Please...by all means keep this going, kulkarnn - 2007-07-14 1:49 PM Or, they give them option of conversion and when refused, they attack those societies or rape their women to produce children of the new religion. Thus the new *******s are the new members of their Church now. Some of them also do not pay heed to the original founder. For example, original founder may be wearing simple clothes and eating simple food. But, these fools wear expensive dresses, live in palaces, and drive in Mercedeces. This is great NB...would you mind filling in the *****, curious minds would LOVE to know,  | |
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| Right now, I'm listening to Blindfaith's "Presence of the Lord" while maintaining my "Kaoism".
Keep up the thread kulkarnn and yogagurl. Reading this thread is great! Much better than watching t.v.
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| that whole thing was just so confusing
so people some people of the organized church or watever
rape there women to have more people it there organization ?
and wat is the ****** thingy ?
also idk numba 6 is CONFUSING  | |
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| yogagirl - 2007-07-14 5:04 PM
that whole thing was just so confusing
so people some people of the organized church or watever
rape there women to have more people it there organization ?
and wat is the ****** thingy ?
also idk numba 6 is CONFUSING
That's why ORGANIZED religion, sucks. My point of view of course, yet I mean, that with deep. conviction.
Yet, there are those who practice the tenets of their religion both within and outside it's organized framework who embody the teachings of their faith. But these individuals are quite rare.
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| why are the rare ? | |
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| yogagirl - 2007-07-14 5:19 PM
why are the rare ?
Because mostly, people are like blind sheep merely following the flock, without knowing what it is, that they are following.
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| ohh isee and sometimes u have
some sheeps that get away from the heard right | |
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| The Divine is already within each of us.
Seeking it outside of oneself is life putting someone else's words inside your mouth, or putting a book on top of your head.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | yogagirl - 2007-07-14 5:38 PM ohh isee and sometimes u have some sheeps that get away from the heard right YG, it's not about sheeps getting away from the herd. In the animal kingdom, this would be deadly for the sheep that got away from its herd, because it would not have the protection of the flock. This is the way sheep survive in the wild, they depend upon each other. On the other hand, human beings do too, to some degree. However, human beings also have the ability to use their own minds and know what is best for them. So, therefore, to follow a "flock" for religious reasons, is very tricky business. People who have religion in today's world are perfectly okay and fine where they are..that must be respected, especially as Yoga Aspirants. However, as a Yoga Aspirant we follow a different path, that is all. It is not something for you to judge, and to say that you are higher than or lower than. That is a very important aspect of Yoga. So, just try to understand what NB is saying, but remain neutral in your feelings about it. Don't judge anything as right or wrong. However, just monitor what is right for yourself today. It's good to see you again and I'm glad that you are asking these questions. You are a smart girl. | |
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| Darling Kaos: From my side the thread is about to complete. It started with yogagirl asking for clarifying 6 points which I did my best.
Kaos - 2007-07-14 4:52 PM
Right now, I'm listening to Blindfaith's "Presence of the Lord" while maintaining my "Kaoism".
Keep up the thread kulkarnn and yogagurl. Reading this thread is great! Much better than watching t.v.
But, I have one question. In the following post, how did Yoga Girl Question got embedded into the post by Kaos or how is Kaos question is signed as Yoga Girl
Kaos - 2007-07-14 3:42 PM
kulkarnn - 2007-07-14 1:49 PM
... maintaning one's own Organized Religion is the challege of today's Yoga.
yogagirl - 2007-07-13 9:15 AM
Hi kulkarnn,
Does that mean you are maintaining "Kulkarnnism"?
K
To satisfy the curiosity of CB: the word begins with b and ends with d (and s for the plural ).
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| kulkarnn - 2007-07-14 10:43 PM
But, I have one question. In the following post, how did Yoga Girl Question got embedded into the post by Kaos or how is Kaos question is signed as Yoga Girl.
Dear Kulkarnn,
As they say, reality is movement that occurs as a "series of interpenetrating and intermingling elements in different degrees of enfoldment ALL present together."...
Namaste,
Kaos
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| That's fine Kulkarnn,
I will leave it to you to explain to yogagurl about religion, philosophy and such.
I trust you will explain to her and everyone else who is interested, the right things. Far too many people are led astray and manipulated when it comes to subjects such as religion, etc.
Namaste,
Kaos
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Kaos - 2007-07-14 11:29 PM That's fine Kulkarnn, I will leave it to you to explain to yogagurl about religion, philosophy and such. I trust you will explain to her and everyone else who is interested, the right things. Far too many people are led astray and manipulated when it comes to subjects such as religion, etc. Namaste, Kaos One thing is definitely for sure Kaos, you do NOT have to worry about Neelbhai (NB) explaining this...he's over qualified for the job...TRUST ME. | |
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| lol who is nb and
did i get number six right or no
i think i posted it in the post already but idk
anouther thing wat dose the sheep anaolgy have to do with numba 6 ? | |
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| Dear YG: I do not know what you understood by 6 for me to respond. Please let me know.
yogagirl - 2007-07-16 8:41 AM
lol who is nb and
did i get number six right or no
i think i posted it in the post already but idk
anouther thing wat dose the sheep anaolgy have to do with numba 6 ? | |
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| i understand that without religion one cannot survive in the society umm but though societies change ummm truth dosn't right
and also that the organize church will do wat ever it can to have more followers | |
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| Fantastic. I am proud of you. You are now PhD in Religion. I wish you the same in Yoga.
Then, you will be my real Yoga Sister. I mean I shall be your real Neelbhai.
yogagirl - 2007-07-16 11:12 AM
i understand that without religion one cannot survive in the society umm but though societies change ummm truth dosn't right
and also that the organize church will do wat ever it can to have more followers | |
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| yea i got a phd wohooo now yoga time yes siry
umm neelbhai?? | |
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| You know, I am liking your language. I wish I could learn it.
yogagirl - 2007-07-16 2:14 PM
yea i got a phd wohooo now yoga time yes siry
umm neelbhai?? | |
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| UMM u can learn it silly
all you do is LOOK up teen slang lol | |
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| Can I get private classes in this language? Gee. My 3 daughters did not use this special language in their teens. We are missing a lot, I mean Teeny Bit!
yogagirl - 2007-07-16 10:17 PM
UMM u can learn it silly
all you do is LOOK up teen slang lol | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | kulkarnn - 2007-07-16 11:03 PM Can I get private classes in this language? Gee. My 3 daughters did not use this special language in their teens. We are missing a lot, I mean Teeny Bit! yogagirl - 2007-07-16 10:17 PM UMM u can learn it silly all you do is LOOK up teen slang lol Oh my....NB you really should of come to NC. Kris would of taught you all the lingo. | |
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| Coming soon. Stay tuned, I mean teened!
Cyndi - 2007-07-17 8:57 AM
kulkarnn - 2007-07-16 11:03 PM Can I get private classes in this language? Gee. My 3 daughters did not use this special language in their teens. We are missing a lot, I mean Teeny Bit! yogagirl - 2007-07-16 10:17 PM UMM u can learn it silly all you do is LOOK up teen slang lol Oh my....NB you really should of come to NC. Kris would of taught you all the lingo. | |
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confused