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| Hi
I have a medical condition known as 'Pectus Excavatum' (Sunken Sternum bone). This has the effect of reducing lung and heart function due to less space in the chest cavity.
Can anyone recommend any asana's which may help correct this anomaly?
Any advice gratefully received!
Scubini
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| I recommend the following:
- Find an experienced teacher. Experienced in situations similar to yours.
- And, take ONLY private instruction.
- And, actually follow that instruction.
Best Luck.
Scubini - 2007-06-03 3:08 PM
Hi
I have a medical condition known as 'Pectus Excavatum' (Sunken Sternum bone). This has the effect of reducing lung and heart function due to less space in the chest cavity.
Can anyone recommend any asana's which may help correct this anomaly?
Any advice gratefully received!
Scubini
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Hi scubini - I hope you find a teacher who can help with this. Does it affect your day to day life or is it one of those anomalies that is medically interesting rather than actually affecting your own breathing and heart? I don't want to minimize the problem if it is severe, but also to get a clearer picture of what is happening with you.
And I see you have posted more than once, so I assume that maybe you have been hanging around a bit? Please be aware that even medical references to a "sunken chest" may bring the attention of the pirates that lurk in these here waters... Shiver me timbers.... |
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| Thanks for the replies guys.
Just to clarify the condition isn't serious in my case I just tend to get out of breath quite easily in aerobic exercise. This has been helped by my daily Yoga practice (Iyengar). I am just seeking advice as to whether there are any poses which specifically target opening the chest particularly the Sternum area so that I can further increase my lung and heart capacity.
tourist - 2007-06-04 10:00 PM
Please be aware that even medical references to a "sunken chest" may bring the attention of the pirates that lurk in these here waters... Shiver me timbers....
Careful any more of that and I might make you walk the plank oooarrrrrrr..me hearties
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| It is good that the condition is not serious in a way to obstruct your work. However, you shall find that if you work on improving it, your efficiency will become manifold. I worked with one world famous musician who had a similar situation and she told me after 1.5 years of improvement that her music improved manifold in addition to health benefits.
Scubini - 2007-06-03 5:23 PM
Thanks for the replies guys.
Just to clarify the condition isn't serious in my case I just tend to get out of breath quite easily in aerobic exercise. This has been helped by my daily Yoga practice (Iyengar ). I am just seeking advice as to whether there are any poses which specifically target opening the chest particularly the Sternum area so that I can further increase my lung and heart capacity.
tourist - 2007-06-04 10:00 PM
Please be aware that even medical references to a "sunken chest" may bring the attention of the pirates that lurk in these here waters... Shiver me timbers....
Careful any more of that and I might make you walk the plank oooarrrrrrr..me hearties
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| Scoob,
if you are looking for stretching positions then it might be better to ask a physiotherapist for such things.
In a yoga context the protocol for working with the sort of thing you mention is a comprehensive one rather than "some asanas".
I hesitate to even reply to questions such as yours for I tend to agree fully with Neel's first post. If you want poses that open the chest there are of course such things. But the expectation that four or five asanas will be enough to remedy what you have is unreasonable.
The best way to handle something liek this is one-on-one with a teacher of experience, then, as Neel says, do what you are instructed. |
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| Interesting comments. I will indeed try and track down a suitable teacher in the real world (easier said than done!)
Thanks again.
Scubini |
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Location: London, England | Hi Scubini,
Well, yoga isn't going to cure you of pectus excavatum I don't think, but may will hopefully imprive your breathing mechanism-I presume that people with pectus excavatum are perhaps more prone to respiratory illnesses? if this is the case, yoga may be valuable in maximizing the potential of the diaphragm, improving the posture of the spine, and improving the movement of the ribs-so all the structures that affect breathing may have improved function. I'll look through my books and see if there are any illnesses you might be prone to.
Nick |
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| Nick - 2007-06-05 6:15 AM
Hi Scubini,
Well, yoga isn't going to cure you of pectus excavatum I don't think, but may will hopefully imprive your breathing mechanism-I presume that people with pectus excavatum are perhaps more prone to respiratory illnesses? if this is the case, yoga may be valuable in maximizing the potential of the diaphragm, improving the posture of the spine, and improving the movement of the ribs-so all the structures that affect breathing may have improved function. I'll look through my books and see if there are any illnesses you might be prone to.
Nick
Hi Nick
I'm sure you are right Yoga could help maximise my potential - it has already helped, could do with a bit more though
I seem to be prone to chest infections etc. I hope through dedicated practice to be healthier in this respect. I guess if Mr Iyengar can achieve this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcPjvp4La8A after suffering from TB and other things as a child anything is possible.
Thanks for your comments
Scubini |
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Location: London, England | Hi Scubini,
I don't seem to have much info on pectus excavatum, but found out that it is often associated with having a straight spine-what this does is angle the ribs down a bit more than is usual-if you look at the rib cage from the side, all the ribs pass downwards on their way to the sternum (breast-bone). In pectus excavatum, this angle is increased. So that I would think that is not so much which postures that you do are important, but to perhaps gently introduce the neutral spine, so that the lumbar spine regains some of its curve. I would then hope that the diaphragm regains some good function, and that this in itself creates a support for good breathing and good posture, which, as you say, should come in useful. Feel free to ask if yuo need any clarification.
Nick |
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| Nick - 2007-06-05 3:55 PM
Hi Scubini,
I don't seem to have much info on pectus excavatum, but found out that it is often associated with having a straight spine-what this does is angle the ribs down a bit more than is usual-if you look at the rib cage from the side, all the ribs pass downwards on their way to the sternum (breast-bone). In pectus excavatum, this angle is increased. So that I would think that is not so much which postures that you do are important, but to perhaps gently introduce the neutral spine, so that the lumbar spine regains some of its curve. I would then hope that the diaphragm regains some good function, and that this in itself creates a support for good breathing and good posture, which, as you say, should come in useful. Feel free to ask if yuo need any clarification.
Nick
Hi Nick
Very kind of you to look into that for me. Can I ask what mean when you say "gently introduce the neutral spine" ?
thanks again
Scubini |
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Location: London, England | Hi Scubini,
The neutral spine is when the lumbar spine is at it's normal, or optimal, curve. This puts the vertebral bodies on the line of gravity which runs vertically through the body-the stresses on the spine are minimized. So exercises like pilates will try to give the practicioner an awareness of this optimal curvature, and themn you learn how to squeeze the muscles around the mid-section so that the posture is unaltered, at elast to some extent, by the exercises and movments that you incorporate into your daily life-from reaching for a can to going into a yoga posture.
I also read that a thorough course of hamstring stretching is employed for people with this condition-because the hamstrings are attached to the pelvis at the back, if they are tight, they can cause the lumbar spine to flatten-or having a flat spine can cause the hamstrings to shorten.
Nick
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| Nick - 2007-06-06 10:17 PM
Hi Scubini,
The neutral spine is when the lumbar spine is at it's normal, or optimal, curve. This puts the vertebral bodies on the line of gravity which runs vertically through the body-the stresses on the spine are minimized. So exercises like pilates will try to give the practicioner an awareness of this optimal curvature, and themn you learn how to squeeze the muscles around the mid-section so that the posture is unaltered, at elast to some extent, by the exercises and movments that you incorporate into your daily life-from reaching for a can to going into a yoga posture.
I also read that a thorough course of hamstring stretching is employed for people with this condition-because the hamstrings are attached to the pelvis at the back, if they are tight, they can cause the lumbar spine to flatten-or having a flat spine can cause the hamstrings to shorten.
Nick
Aha ! Very interesting. I may have to look into Pilates.
Funny you should mention ham string stretches as one of my favourite asanas is paschimottasana where I can feel them stretch at the pelvis.
Thanks muchly for the info Nick
Namaste
Scubini |
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Location: London, England | Hi Scubini,
No problem-hope it's of some help-bear in mind that I've only made gross generalaizations so far. Whenever people do have structural alterations which might lead to respiratory dysfunction, I usually am tempted to recommend a breathing training device which I have mentioned before, it's called the "power lung." You might want to look into the athletic version of this, which has more settings. I didn't think it would be much help as I had bee practicing for fifteen years, but it taught me more than my experience and dozens of teachers had taught me-they have even tested it on athletes and found some of them got a 25% increase in lung capacity-huge, by any standards, for an athlete, unbelievable.
Nick
Edited by Nick 2007-06-05 6:26 PM
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| 25% WOW ! I will have to try one those.
Thanks again Nick
Scubini |
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Location: London, England | Hi there,
Is this link helpful?-it's the best one I could find for the lay reader.
Nick
http://www.pectusdeformity.com/ |
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| Hey Nick
Thanks for the link - most comprehensive article Ive seen. Photos were a bit gruesome tho, mind you Im a bit squeamish!
Cheers Scubini
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Location: London, England | Hi Scubini,
Sorry about that-I didn't look at the photos before I sent you the link-but the first half is pretty useful.
Take care
Nick |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| I gotta say I am a little disappointed with our local pirate population for not hijacking this thread. They must be a bunch of wannabes just hanging around the movie theatre watching Johnny Depp... |
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Location: London, England | QUICKLY!! Abandon ship!! |
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Location: London, England | QUICKLY!! Abandon ship!! |
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| Nick - 2007-06-07 2:05 PM
Hi Scubini,
Sorry about that-I didn't look at the photos before I sent you the link-but the first half is pretty useful.
Take care
Nick
No problem at all Nick didn't mean it to sound like a complaint altho reading it back it kind of does.
Keep up the good work!
Scubini
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| tourist - 2007-06-07 3:16 PM
I gotta say I am a little disappointed with our local pirate population for not hijacking this thread. They must be a bunch of wannabes just hanging around the movie theatre watching Johnny Depp...
I didn't know pirates could read and write let alone surf the internet |
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Location: London, England | Hi Scubini,
Not at all-Sorry, those photos are a bit horrifying, and not relevant, unless you take the surgery option. It's just that these guys have the best information that I could find easily.
Interestingly, found another site that says breathing training is a good idea, as well as:
"Mild cases of pectus excavatum may respond to an exercise and posture physiotherapy program. Many patients with rounded shoulders and a slouching posture have benefited from these techniques, with or without additional surgical correction. However, body-building exercises usually result in worsening of cosmetic appearance due to the enhancement of the pectoral muscles."
So if you regard your participation in yoga as an exercise in posture, rather than stretching, then your practice may benefit you greatly-but then again, this applies to everyone.
Nick
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Location: London, England | This also looks interesting but requires a prescription-might be worth some research?
Nick |
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Location: London, England | Sorry, forgot to add link-if you type in "pectus excavatum vacuum bell" that'll show you loads. Ialso saw this in my travels:
"Steps to improve the chest wall appearance
In order to improve the chest wall appearance, the patient
need to follow the following steps in sequence in their
daily exercise program. They are:
1. To increase the mobility and flexibility of the spine and chest wall.
2. To lengthen any tightened and shortened structures.
3. To strengthen muscles in elevating and expanding the depressed chest wall.
4. To restore normal posture.
Part of the conclusion is as follows: "Performance of the above exercises will see immediate elevation of chest wall. The long term effect of the exercises is unknown. However, some reviews throw light of hope that throughout life, the skeleton is continuously changing to adapt its form and structure to suit their functional needs."
What is really interesting is that one of the references is from the PE Excercises website which many of us know about: http://www.users.bigpond.com/conover/PE/exercise.htm "
Must take a look at that website-the quote is from a discussion forum for people with p.e. ;
http://www.pectusinfo.com/board/viewthread.php?tid=1184
Take care
Nick
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| Nick - 2007-06-07 4:45 PM
Sorry, forgot to add link-if you type in "pectus excavatum vacuum bell" that'll show you loads. Ialso saw this in my travels:
"Steps to improve the chest wall appearance
In order to improve the chest wall appearance, the patient
need to follow the following steps in sequence in their
daily exercise program. They are:
1. To increase the mobility and flexibility of the spine and chest wall.
2. To lengthen any tightened and shortened structures.
3. To strengthen muscles in elevating and expanding the depressed chest wall.
4. To restore normal posture.
Part of the conclusion is as follows: "Performance of the above exercises will see immediate elevation of chest wall. The long term effect of the exercises is unknown. However, some reviews throw light of hope that throughout life, the skeleton is continuously changing to adapt its form and structure to suit their functional needs."
What is really interesting is that one of the references is from the PE Excercises website which many of us know about: http://www.users.bigpond.com/conover/PE/exercise.htm "
Must take a look at that website-the quote is from a discussion forum for people with p.e. ;
http://www.pectusinfo.com/board/viewthread.php?tid=1184
Take care
Nick
Thanks Nick. Lots of useful info.
I like the idea of the vacuum bell in conjunction with exercises I will also try out the power lung I think.
Im off before these pirates try and get hold of me chest
take care
Scubini |
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| karmann - 2007-06-10 1:24 AM
Well, I'm no pirate, but this brings back an embarrassing memory of a boyfriend many years ago with a mild case of this condition. He told me that when he was a baby his mother stepped on his chest in her high heels (and I believed him )
LMAO |
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| hey everyone, im new here. i have a sunken chest as well and have been neglecting it for some years now. it does bother me though emotionally and physically even though its pretty mild. anyways, i was wondering if anyone here might still have a link to bigpond/conover's website on pectus excavatum. its been linked to in so many different websites but its dead now. i remember maybe being there before when i first discovered that i had PE, i really wish id started working on it back then... |
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Location: London, England | Hey there,
Sorry, can't help.
Nick |
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| do you know "healthyway yoga life "in fuzhou CHINA?
The next message is ahout healthyway yoga life:
if you want to know about it ,you can call 0591-87676066
Edited by liliwang 2008-03-29 1:33 AM
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| Hey, I'm an athletic teenager with sunken chest. I read the surgery link and kinda got freaked out. Can you tell me how old you are scubini to kind of assure me that I'm not going to have a heart attack anytime soon. When I count my heart beats my resting rate is better than average. |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Hi tomahawk - have you been diagnosed with this condition? It is significantly different from a typical postural sunken chest. Do you practice yoga? |
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| I'm pretty sure I have it. The center of my chest wall slants in toward my spine like in all the pectus pictures, though not quite as severe as some of the pics. I'm going to ask my doc about it at my next physical in the summer. Could you please explain the difference between "postural sunken chest" and pectus excavatum" and if you know a way to tell the difference? I've never practiced yoga, but I'm considering starting...
Edited by tomahawk0122 2008-03-30 2:39 PM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Perhaps one of our resident anatomists will have a go at this one? |
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Location: London, England | tomahawk0122 - 2008-03-30 6:38 PM
I'm pretty sure I have it. The center of my chest wall slants in toward my spine like in all the pectus pictures, though not quite as severe as some of the pics. I'm going to ask my doc about it at my next physical in the summer. Could you please explain the difference between "postural sunken chest" and pectus excavatum" and if you know a way to tell the difference? I've never practiced yoga, but I'm considering starting...
Hi there,
Well, 'postural sunken chest' is just a result of rounded shoulders, whereas pectus excavatum is a deformity of the rib cage.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pectus_excavatum
Nick
Edited by Nick 2008-03-31 7:51 AM
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| My chest looks like the one in the picture, though not quite so severe. That means I have pectus excavatum correct? |
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Location: London, England | Hi Tom,
Well, I don't like making a diagnosis or helping any one make a self diagnosis on the internet, but yes, you have pectus excavatum, almost certainly.
Nick |
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