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| Hello all. I am a pretty big advocate of marijuana and smoke pretty much daily. I had recently took a two week or so break from smoking and have been experiementing with meditation. I've been reading a lot about it and can't exactly tell if I'm performing it correctly...but there is something about the act that i really enjoy. Anyone who has smoked marijuana understands some of the effects from pot..such as closeness with surroundings and the appreciation of things it can make one feel. I have recently been looking towards constructive ways of incorperating marijuana into different activities, and i was wondering if smoking a few bowls of pot before a session of meditation has in the past proven beneficial in any way or not. Any knowledge on this subject would be must appreciated, thank you all. | |
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| Way back in the 70s into the 80s, I was a heavy user. I am still somewhat nostalgic about those times and there are far more good memories than bad, but (you knew this was coming, right?) I have no desire to indulge in that anymore. I don't hate it, I don't have strong feeling for or against people who use it based soley on that; I just have no craving for it. I would strongly encourage you to continue meditating and you may find that it releases its hold on you as well. I think it would interfere with my meditation. Drugs make the percieved reality change by changing the perspective to an alternate perceived reality. Meditation shows you that the perception is an illusion; a completely different way to change "reality". Starting with one illusion layered on top of another would make this more difficult, IMO. | |
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Expert Yogi
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| What OptiMystic said  I know that in TM teaching they don't allow ANY mood altering drugs because they alter the functioning of the nervous system. Meditation will give you the real experiences you are looking for, not the perceptions or feelings you get from pot. And no, I am not anti-pot. Child of the 60's here  | |
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| Hi Slyder,
Welcome. You may want to read the part of Michael Pollan's book, "The Botony of Desire," that deals with cannabis. His notion is that plants (botony) have seduced humanity in order to propogate their species.
He describes some of what's known about "the people's pharmaceutical." Simply stated, all humans have cell receptor sites that are only activated by THC. In other words, the molecular receptor will only house a molecule of a partiuclar shape, and that's cannabis. What happens when the cannabis receptor sites are filled, when a THC molecule is lodged into the receptor site? He describes that it blocks the nerve pathway to the memory stores in the brain. What happens when we can't access our memories of things so well? Everything looks fresher, "That's the reddest apple I've ever seen." We forget how many red apples we've seen and this one becomes special. Same is true for all the senses and our capacity for organizing sensory information. Hence, the moment seems to come forward in our perceptions, and the history of our understanding of things seems to recede into the background. Pollan calls it humanity's "relaxation" fix: we're disconnected from the burdens of reality for a while, then we return to the rat race (his words). He also writes about apples (for intoxication from apple jack), tulips (for beauty) and potatoes (for sustanance).
Cannabis is a legitimate pain reliever. When Jimmy Carter started the Compassionate Cannabis Project when he was president, 20 or so very ill patients were allowed the opportunity to access govenment pot.
A conference was held on the west coast several years ago to consult on what's happened to those folks over the past decades. Only a half dozen or so of them are still alive, all still very ill and disabled. They have their choice of any pain killer on the planet, including all of the morphines and opiods, but every one of those patients choose cannabis as their primary source of pain relief. Most do not use any other means. Chronic pain seems to be helped by smoking cannabis. But, it's the counter-cultural icon of the culture wars, so it's not likely that legality will change any time soon. Further, it's illegality and widespread use does a tremendous disservice to our youth. If they can ignore laws about cannabis, what makes any other law worthy of obeying? I personally think that if it were legalized, many current young user would probably stop, as going against authority is part of growing up.
Using cannabis to meditate is equivalent to looking to a child for wisdom. A child may appear wise, but lacks the experience to understand who s/he is, and bears no responsiblity for the whole community. The world is such an attractive place, no wonder it pulls so many away from our hearts and true understanding.
IMHO, Michael
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| Avoid drugs and alcohol. Carlos Castaneda was a talented fiction writer, but he misled many people. Drugs are not an effective path to enlightenment, but they are a quick path to misery and insanity.
Meditation brings a sense of fullness and completion and is the only permanent source of tranquility available to human beings. All other forms of serenity are temporary and dissolve into conflict and chaos over time. The euphoria of drugs quickly lead to misery and self-destruction. The wholesomeness of love, so beautiful and ethereal, is a relatively short lived and fleeting experience. As J. Krishnamurti said, meditation brings order and "That order is the order of the universe. It is irrevocable and doesn't depend on anything." Meditation is the eternal essence of nature taking on conscious form within the mortal human frame.
Meditation is also an adventure of self-discovery. How can you live without knowing who or what you are? If someone asks you who you are during the day you may state your name, as if a temporary label actually means something important. Ask yourself who you are when you are in deep sleep, 2unconscious and without even a dream to prove that you exist at all. Ask yourself who you were ten months before you were born and who you will be just one moment after your body dies. Meditation increases awareness of the natural phenomena that is actually going on behind your own eyes. Self-knowledge has intrinsic value, even without the indescribable bliss nature generously unleashes in those who practice meditation with sincerity and patience. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 1738
Location: right where I'm supposed to be | HOLY SMOKES 
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| slyder2412 - 2007-03-20 1:48 PM
Hello all. I am a pretty big advocate of marijuana and smoke pretty much daily. I had recently took a two week or so break from smoking and have been experiementing with meditation. I've been reading a lot about it and can't exactly tell if I'm performing it correctly...but there is something about the act that i really enjoy. Anyone who has smoked marijuana understands some of the effects from pot..such as closeness with surroundings and the appreciation of things it can make one feel. I have recently been looking towards constructive ways of incorperating marijuana into different activities, and i was wondering if smoking a few bowls of pot before a session of meditation has in the past proven beneficial in any way or not. Any knowledge on this subject would be must appreciated, thank you all.
I think this post is made in the blissful state of Marijuana. You are already in bliss and realized. Do not worry about meditation and all. Good luck! | |
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| "Avoid drugs and alcohol. Carlos Castaneda was a talented fiction writer, but he misled many people. Drugs are not an effective path to enlightenment, but they are a quick path to misery and insanity."
I just wanted to say that i REALLY disagree with that statement. Drugs i think serve a very important purpose because i have always seen sobriety or being high for example as just different/alternative outlooks on the world. If drugs are used with respect and care, then you will always have a leash on them opposed to the other way around. I also do not agree that drugs are only temporary because if one comes to a realization while being on a drug, they may truely believe what they had just experienced and which will then become a permanent thought.
I just wanted to say that. But i really do appreciate all your responses. I now agree that pot should not be mixed with meditation as they are both completely different insights and as someone had said earlier, the combination of the two may make things A LOT more confusing. Thank you all once more. | |
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| TigerTurban - 2007-03-21 10:23 AM
Avoid drugs and alcohol. Carlos Castaneda was a talented fiction writer, but he misled many people. Drugs are not an effective path to enlightenment, but they are a quick path to misery and insanity.
I think if you re-read Castenda you'll find an attitude of useful tools, with the potential to really hurt the user. A LOT of people have used Casteneda to justify thier own indulgence in these substances, while his attitude appears to be different. | |
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| For every action there is a reaction, not just in theoretical physics but in ordinary human life as well. When you create positive actions you will eventually reap positive reactions for yourself and for others. In this way what we call ethics and morality are woven into the very fabric of the universe right down to the subatomic level. | |
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| "For every action there is a reaction, not just in theoretical physics but in ordinary human life as well. When you create positive actions you will eventually reap positive reactions for yourself and for others. In this way what we call ethics and morality are woven into the very fabric of the universe right down to the subatomic level."
I'm not sure what you're getting at with this topic though? Please explain. | |
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| The key word here is homeostasis. If you go to sleep on your own, that is fine. If you eat nutritious food and feel good, that is fine. But when you take a drug, it forces an effect on the body and the body fights back to bring it back to where it was. It creates an opposite effect-- also known as sling shot effect. So take a drug to help you sleep and the body fights the effect and it becomes harder to get to sleep. The MDs know all about homeostasis.
I have been doing yoga and martial arts since 12. Now I have never tried smoking pot, a tobacco cigarette or any alcohol except a few times I drank a glass of wine. Now if you want to see how I am doing with a lifestyle like this, read this article below and you will see. Remember whatever pot does for you, the body is doing the opposite to you since it does not like to be forced into anything. Takes less than 5 minutes to read. http://EzineArticles.com/?id=489529
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|  I'm very happy to see a post about marijuana on yoga forums. It seems there is a great confusion about marijuana... most people regard it as a "drug" ... but it is actually a holy herb. It is only a drug when you view it as a drug. When you regard it as sacred, it regards you as sacred.
I have found marijuana to be the only medium whereby I could keep myself rooted in this oft-times crazy world. Marijuana and meditation, for me, are a wonderful combination. Much inner knowledge has been revealed to me while under the benefic influence of marijuana. Its all about the mindstate you are in when you smoke it.
Different people receive different effects, based on their own individual approach. What I have noticed is that when you smoke marijuana you can come into closer contact with your own personal demons and your own dilemmas, and you can focus more clearly. At least I can focus more clearly when I am on marijuana. It takes me into a higher state.
But I also agree that there is a place in the spiritual path where marijuana serves a purpose, but there is also a point where it begins to do harm. Right now in my path, I feel that I have to abandon marijuana. It once served a purpose, but now I need to root myself in my pure being, without the need for external support.
And that is what Yoga and meditation is all about... freeing yourself from the need for external support.
I have been very depressed all throughout my life though, and marijuana has been the only thing keeping me up, and in a sense, the only thing keeping me down as well. It is a battle now to destroy depression without the need for marijuana.
But to each his own. Go with what you feel God. We are all individuals and there is no single concrete reality except the fact that we all exist together and each strand of silk echoes throughout the whole spider's web of existence. | |
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| Wow...I googled this page, but I would have to say THIS reply is most enlightening.
Following your link to the site, I found the description of Flow. Words...they mean nothing until you have experienced them. I accidentally found "Flow"...after finding myself in a "transcendent state".......(I read about it in the book "Why People Believe Weird Things" - highly recommend)
....drumroll....
Due to pot!
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The transcendent state (of consciousness) occurred when my buddies and I were respectably high, and decided to watch an internet cartoon. This one was a lampoon of another series of internet cartoons that we found weird and quirky enough to be likeable.
I experienced Flow after that as I was absorbed in trying to make sense of what happened, but also appreciating the fact that I was high with my best friends and times were good. It was gone in the morning, and it came back (in various degrees, never as shockingly as the first time) over the course of five months.
My juvenile mind thought that I was unique in my experience, and instead of researching decided to create its own explanations. I discovered more about myself and other people. I applied the concepts I learned in Physics (grade 12, but complicated and simple enough to fit), facts I picked up (like Left Brain/Right Brain, and the Subconscious) and so on. And there was my downfall: assuming I was alone. Eventually I got sidetracked and discouraged, ending my research and still wondering if it was real.
So Big Thanks for the link to the site mentioning the "Flow". Incidentally I have the book "Relaxation Response" borrowed from the library and I've been putting it off. Now I know...
Now returning to drugs in general! I agree that drugs can be harmful and very beneficial. It's the same with everything. Technology...Politicians...Homework...Teachers...etc. It simply takes a balance.
Living with the Flow, I found myself attracted to the idea of trying drugs *in that particular state of mind*. Naturally there MAY be undesirable side effects, such as psychosis (in case of marijuana and LSD - and I would know, trust me), and death (if your hallucination takes you too far, or you smash into someone sober on the highway).
Just as wakefulness and dreaming are different states of consciousness, and just as there are lines between them (daydreaming, anyone?), I believe that drugs cause additional states of consciousness. Depending on the person's chemistry, mindset and experience, the drug-induced state of consciousness will interfere or enhance the experience. I know (from a book) that taking LSD and pot at the same time will likely give you a "religious experience" (if you have enough experience and don't have a bad trip). I wish I could point you all to mountains of research, but our right now, we wait.
The mind is powerful. Enough to make a professional cyclist go for eighty hours without sleep and hallucinate that his safety team was a bunch of aliens like those in "Invaders" (old movie).
Enough to drive a person out of poverty and into billionairedom. Enough to make the body STARVE until enlightenment is achieved (Gautama Sidhartha, aka Buddha). And enough to destroy the person from the inside.
All I know is that there is still ALOT we don't know. As people presently living on Earth, thinking in terms of the human civilization today. I don't doubt that people will discover new things accidentally...and incidentally, the discoveries happen when you're doing something you chose to do or like to do. Maybe you're a chemist, finding the structure of a benzene molecule in your dream. Maybe you're a pot head having THE realization guaranteeing world peace forever, making money obsolete. Who knows. If you like it, do it, but don't let it destroy you.
Comments?
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| slyder2412 - 2007-03-21 11:40 AM
I also do not agree that drugs are only temporary because if one comes to a realization while being on a drug, they may truely believe what they had just experienced and which will then become a permanent thought.
I just wanted to say that. But i really do appreciate all your responses. I now agree that pot should not be mixed with meditation as they are both completely different insights and as someone had said earlier, the combination of the two may make things A LOT more confusing. Thank you all once more.
I had a temporary Realization experience while high after I meditated one night. It was the most beautiful then I've ever experienced, but it was temporary. You can learn a lot from drugs, I agree and they can be used to gain greater insight into yourself. But once you learn what you need to learn, you need to put it behind you and move forward. I believe enlightenment cannot happen with drugs. | |
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Location: Upstate NY | I have wondered much about this topic as I found out while reading that RamaKrishna was an avid hemp smoker, was his samadhi false? | |
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| Ravi - 2007-09-21 8:05 PM
I have wondered much about this topic as I found out while reading that RamaKrishna was an avid hemp smoker, was his samadhi false?
Was he really?
I'm very suprised!!
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | You guys....Shiva's favorite herb is Marijuana. I thought everybody knew that one!!
What's wrong with marijuana??? Sometimes, I would love to have an organic, no chemicals added joint. If I ever get to Nepal!! During Shivaratri, smoking pot is a very common thing. In fact, there is another Nepali Hindu festival where you smoke pot all day long...I'd be in heaven,
Here in the states...I can't function smoking pot. It makes me paranoid because of all the controversy surrounding it. I feel like I'm going to get arrested just for being stoned and can't go near a public place. But, when I was a teenager, we had the real stuff and we had some really happy fun times. Life was so different back then. | |
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| Dear Ravi:
The greatest sage Shree Ramakrishna did not take smoke when he was in his austere state in the woods. He had achieved his liberation before he was known to be smoking in the company of his devotees. Smoking hemp was NOT the main quality of him. The hemp smoking was common in that society. The Asana master BKS Iyengar Guru drinks Tea as well as Coffee. That does not mean he became Asana master by drinking Tea and Coffee (Actually, his book stated 'drink one cup of tea or coffee before the practice if you are very hungry!)
Shree Ramakrishna could NOT touch money. How many persons do you know who come in that category?
And, let me tell you one more thing. Shree Ramakrishna and Shree Sharadamata are the only couple known to this date which was married, but were real celibate througout their life.
O Ramokrishno jayo ramokrishno pronom lo tobo charane prabhu pronom lo tobo chorone....
I can tell more about him. But, I shall stop here.
OM ShantiH
Ravi - 2007-09-20 12:05 PM
I have wondered much about this topic as I found out while reading that RamaKrishna was an avid hemp smoker, was his samadhi false? | |
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| this resurrected thread..........
marijuana
Bad news in the USA | |
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| Weed makes me advance too quickly in mediation. I try to avoid it while meditating. | |
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Yes, it seems logical that marijuana and other drugs are laced with toxins here in the U.S.
As for the comment that it makes you advance too quickly I find that to be very interesting. Not in a hurry to advance? Explain.
In the end though the goal of meditation according to tradition is true concentration regardless of what state you are in, altered or otherwise, so I would say they are unrelated. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| "Advancing too quickly" - my interpretation of that is that it disturbs and perhaps injures the nervous system. Like trying to drive a formula one race car after one driving lesson. Not good. | |
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| One of the biggest drug abuse issues in the UK has arisen because the strains of pot being sold are getting increasingly strong and are often cut with some fairly nasty chemicals. Even pure, the strength can now cause life-long mental health issues such as paranoia.
Fee | |
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| Cyndi - 2007-09-20 3:27 PM
You guys....Shiva's favorite herb is Marijuana. I thought everybody knew that one!!
What's wrong with marijuana???
It causes lung cancer and bronchitis, memory loss and the inability to organize and integrate complex information, reduced sperm production and erectile dysfunction, increased risk of stroke or heart attack (due to increased blood pressure/heart rate and reduced oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood), impairment of the immune system, various short and long term mental illnesses and can result in arrest and possibly prison, depending where you live.
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| What about the benefits of marijuana, jim?
it causes long periods of time to pass by quickly, rob schneider movies to be funny, and increases sexual response in women.
nothing i like better than smoking a doob and having a nice oil massage.
i think moreso than anything, it is important to not be attached to either smoking weed, or also detachment from being against weed.
i have yet to find either.
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| I was simply answering the question "What's wrong with marijuana???"
Yes, there are benefits as well, including medical benefits. There are also medical uses for morphine, but I wouldn't recommend it for non-medical uses either. People who smoke pot on a regular basis are doing a lot of damage to their bodies. People who drink alchohol on a regular basis are also doing a lot of damage to their bodies. People who eat "fast food" on a regular basis are doing a lot of damage as well. Our bodies can only deal with harmful substances on a very limited basis. I think that the key here is the regularity of the use of toxins.
Intoxication is the body's response to toxins (poisons); the body fighting to get rid of them. Intoxication always does damage, but if done infrequently, the body can repair itself.
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| jimg - 2007-11-28 1:06 PM
I was simply answering the question "What's wrong with marijuana???"
Yes, there are benefits as well, including medical benefits. There are also medical uses for morphine, but I wouldn't recommend it for non-medical uses either. People who smoke pot on a regular basis are doing a lot of damage to their bodies. People who drink alchohol on a regular basis are also doing a lot of damage to their bodies. People who eat "fast food" on a regular basis are doing a lot of damage as well. Our bodies can only deal with harmful substances on a very limited basis. I think that the key here is the regularity of the use of toxins.
Intoxication is the body's response to toxins (poisons); the body fighting to get rid of them. Intoxication always does damage, but if done infrequently, the body can repair itself.
Although i agree with you I think the spirit of this whole discussion that really isn't coming forward is what's wrong with the 'Drug War'.
Of course I'm rather Biased by my own perception........
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| whats wrong with marijuana is that like cigarettes as well as with our food and water they are laced with poisonous chemicals. | |
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| Marijuana is (like alchohol and cigarettes) itself a poisonous chemical, thus the intoxication. You cannot have intoxication without a toxic substance. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Jim, everything has a purpose. In fact, people can get addicted to almost anything...sex, chai, coffee, junk food, blah blah.
My opinion is that Marijuana is a very natural substance from the earth...it's very natural. Unfortunately, like everything else....marijuana has been exploited and ruined by humans. To top it all off, they added chemicals and pesticides to it, which ruins the basic structure of the plant itself.
So, having that said. 2-weeks ago, I had my tooth pulled and am getting it ready for an implant. I would of have LOVED to have had a joint instead of the laughing gas and anesthea (sp?) they gave me and then, an ounce or so for the pain and discomfort afterwards...rather than those expensive ADDICTIVE LORTABS and that awful anitbiotic that I quit taking due to all the side effects and it was total BS. I only took 1 Lortab that made me constipated and really did nothing for me. However..... For me...marijuana was a much better alternative...unfortunately, the kind of marijuana I like, is rarely available these days unless you go to the jungle or some "pure" land.
So there, I rest my case. Marijuana use is good, it's just like anything...even herbal tea, green tea, honey, coffee whatever....EVERYTHING IN MODERATION!!!! | |
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| I would say that the Drug War and many policies in place right now are poisonous policies | |
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| Although marijuana is a poison, the difference between poison and medicine is often in the dosage. If you prefer marijuana to another drug (legal or not) for pain relief, that is (or at least should be) up to you. There are plusses and minuses to all drugs.
There are many natural substances in the environment that are toxic; opium is natural, as is hemlock, deadly nightshade, belladonna and many other plants.
I am not against marijuana for any "moral" reason. Smoking it is simply an unhealthy thing to do. As I said, if used infrequently, the body can repair the damage. If used on a regular basis, it causes a lot of damage, whether in it's "pure" form or it's current adulterated form. | |
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| I'm not here to advocate marijuana as being wholesome and natural, or having healing properties, or how it induces a state of harmony and love within me.
But jimj you are laughably mistaken.
The euphoria is a result of stimulating increased dopamine activity in the brain.
Not by toxic poisoning although that does occur from the "additives".
Arsenic, strictnine, and ammonium in the case of cigarettes to name a few.
The problem with forums is that some people decide they are enlightened in relation to everybody else to be the authority on any given subject and expect everyone to play along.
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| Whether you want to smoke marijuana once every year or several times a day, it is none of my business. It is your body and you are the only one who will get the results. If you want to trade short term euphoria for long term health problems, that is your choice. At some point in your life you will realize that what really matters happens as a result of becoming more aware of reality, not chemically avoiding it, no matter how pleasant the feeling.
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| http://www.alandiashram.org/html/reviews/marijuana_addiction.html
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| Hi Annieken: Can you kindly give me some insight into how the dopamine activiy is stimulated with M? I mean when M is taken, approx what happens to increase the dopamine activity? Thanks in advance.
Anniekin - 2007-11-29 4:24 PM
I'm not here to advocate marijuana as being wholesome and natural, or having healing properties, or how it induces a state of harmony and love within me.
But jimj you are laughably mistaken.
The euphoria is a result of stimulating increased dopamine activity in the brain.
Not by toxic poisoning although that does occur from the "additives".
Arsenic, strictnine, and ammonium in the case of cigarettes to name a few.
The problem with forums is that some people decide they are enlightened in relation to everybody else to be the authority on any given subject and expect everyone to play along.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Interesting observation Annekein,
Dhan, where do you find these articles????!!?? I'm not addicted to marijuana, in fact, I haven't had it in like forever!! Although...if I ever got the "pure" stuff....for me, having a marijuana joint is no different than drinking an occasional glass of wine or a beer. Besides...these days, breathing air is almost bad for your health,
Balance and moderation in all things......it's such an interesting concept and requires lots of discipline. It's an interesting practice.
This reminds me of something my husband told me about his Father, who is 100% Punjabi. The Nepali Sherpas used to bring him this black substance down from the Himalayas. He would call his closest friends to their home and the men would smoke it. Any ideas on what that substance might of been??? Anyone care to take a wild stab at it, heehehe | |
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| Cyndi - 2007-11-29 10:27 PM
Interesting observation Annekein,
Dhan, where do you find these articles????!!?? I'm not addicted to marijuana, in fact, I haven't had it in like forever!! Although...if I ever got the "pure" stuff....for me, having a marijuana joint is no different than drinking an occasional glass of wine or a beer. Besides...these days, breathing air is almost bad for your health,
Balance and moderation in all things......it's such an interesting concept and requires lots of discipline. It's an interesting practice.
This reminds me of something my husband told me about his Father, who is 100% Punjabi. The Nepali Sherpas used to bring him this black substance down from the Himalayas. He would call his closest friends to their home and the men would smoke it. Any ideas on what that substance might of been??? Anyone care to take a wild stab at it, heehehe
the squeezed resin from the Marijuana flowers--also considered a form of milking the plant
you rub it between your hands, gently, careful not to kill the plant and squeeze the resin and then rub it off your hands onto a clean cloth then
you ball it up and smoke it | |
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Location: London, England | Hi all,
According to this site, marijuana doesn't affect dopamine:
http://users.lycaeum.org/~sputnik/Drugs/THC/Health/mj.brain.html
Nick | |
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| Whether marijuana should be legal or not is a totally different question. Cigarettes and alcohol are legal and they are both bad for your health.
What's wrong with marijuana???
It causes lung cancer and bronchitis, memory loss and the inability to organize and integrate complex information, reduced sperm production and erectile dysfunction, increased risk of stroke or heart attack (due to increased blood pressure/heart rate and reduced oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood), impairment of the immune system, various short and long term mental illnesses and can result in arrest and possibly prison, depending where you live.
If you are aware of the health risks of cigarettes, alcohol or marijuana and think that the trade off is worth it, that is your decision. I think that it is irresponsible to extol possible virtues of marijuana use without including possible negative effects.
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| jimg - 2007-11-30 1:41 PM
Whether marijuana should be legal or not is a totally different question. Cigarettes and alcohol are legal and they are both bad for your health.
What's wrong with marijuana???
It causes lung cancer and bronchitis, memory loss and the inability to organize and integrate complex information, reduced sperm production and erectile dysfunction, increased risk of stroke or heart attack (due to increased blood pressure/heart rate and reduced oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood), impairment of the immune system, various short and long term mental illnesses and can result in arrest and possibly prison, depending where you live.
If you are aware of the health risks of cigarettes, alcohol or marijuana and think that the trade off is worth it, that is your decision. I think that it is irresponsible to extol possible virtues of marijuana use without including possible negative effects.
I do not disagree with you, and I think it's irresponsible to even talk about marijuana without criticizing the policies that are in place in the USA criminalizing it.
The Drug War is at best a jobs program and at worst destroying the social fabric of our generation.
We should do better.
Besides, I'm not loosing any sleep over anybody cultivating, trafficking, selling, buying, or using any illegal drugs, what I loose sleep over is the consequences of bad education and a police state taking away my constitutional rights. | |
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| ST,
The only thing that the "War on Drugs" has done is limit supply and therefore raise prices, making it more desirable to grow, import and sell drugs as the profit is greater. This has lead to more gangs and more urban violence. (Personally, I think that most drugs should be legalized, controlled and taxed. Instead of spending billions of dollars, we could collect tax revenue that could be used for drug education and treatment.)
jimg | |
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| I think I mentioned this somewhere else before, and was scoffed at. I really believe it though. I think marijuana will never be legal in the US for exactly that reason. If it were legalized so many people would just grow their own. The government wouldn't get that money, and I'm sure they know. It also doesn't translate over into pill form, and measurable doses. The medical community would never go for that. I feel bad for people fighting cancer who could get some relief from using marijuana but are not going to break the law. | |
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| jimg - 2007-11-30 2:48 PM
ST,
The only thing that the "War on Drugs" has done is limit supply and therefore raise prices, making it more desirable to grow, import and sell drugs as the profit is greater. This has lead to more gangs and more urban violence. (Personally, I think that most drugs should be legalized, controlled and taxed. Instead of spending billions of dollars, we could collect tax revenue that could be used for drug education and treatment.)
jimg
Yes, again, I agree with you.
It is tearing the fabric of civilized society apart.
I disagree that everyone would simply grow marijuana, because, not everyone grows their own lettuce or tomatoes or whatever........
I mean really, folks who don't already grow things for fun or profit will not jump into growing their own medicine, some will but that will be a small minority.
No where should the subject of drugs be discussed without fully discussing the negative impacts of prohibition.
It's not right or sustainable for 'Big Brother Government and Corporation" to tell us what is legal and right to consume, it is an individual's responsibility to make educated choices
I like to go to dine in restaurants that don't allow smoking, so, less people are smoking cigarettes in my immediate area-------THAT is how to deal with smoking anything, SOCIALLY not criminally.
We have a more politicized and militarized society here in the USA, and really it's time to stop eating what we're being force fed and say that enough is enough.
The Drug War policies are wrong headed, and absolutely a failure.
People do drugs, whether they sniff, smoke, inject, eat or whatever else there is.
Doing drugs is not acceptable behavior in most societal settings, and promoting civilized society is what civilized people do, NOT promoting criminal behavior which is what the present power structure and ruling class elites and laws in place are doing.
We should do better, we are better than this, I'm not proud of where we are as a nation right now.
I would rather my children have the choice to do drugs or not and choose to not do them than to not do them because the government will confiscate all your property and sentence you to a lengthy prison sentence if they catch you breaking the law.
It's as if we're not considered responsible enough as a citizenry to be allowed free will by our ruling class.
Marijuana and all types of plants may be used in certain ceremonies, however they are not necessary, but in the USA we don't even have the freedom to legally make a choice.
We don't have that FREEDOM.
It's as if in this case, we're already in prison, here in the USA.
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| I disagree that everyone would simply grow marijuana, because, not everyone grows their own lettuce or tomatoes or whatever........
I just want to say that a head of lettuce is about a dollar. Economics is a powerful motivator. | |
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| point well taken---
not everyone gathers truffles, or mines gold or diamonds or coal, not everyone grows their own tobacco, or brews their own beer, or roasts their own coffee........
the list goes on.
My point is, drug use is a social issue, and should be dealt with socially, not criminally.
More people die from cigarettes and alcohol related issues than marijuana or whatever other illegal drug you want for whatever the reasons so.......... | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | This is soo funny...this argument over marijuana has been going on like forever. Some things never change.
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| Hey Steve, I see what you're saying. Now I'm thinking brand names, slogans, catchy jingles,... | |
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| bstqltmkr - 2007-12-02 1:33 PM
Hey Steve, I see what you're saying. Now I'm thinking brand names, slogans, catchy jingles,...
???
for what?
Store brand pot?
I think that's putting the cart in front of the horse | |
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| C'mon man, It's fun to think about. I was sceptical of the market and then I realized all the crap people are buying now. I saw a commercial for individualy wrapped prunes. I though it was the stupidest thing I heard all day, but the people in the ad were buying it up. "It's just like candy" one woman said. Because she had to take a wrapper off to eat it? I still don't get it, but now there's a market for it.  | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Ooh Shelly,
I love Marijuana Truffles,  | |
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| See! That's what I'm talking about. I was thinking of a slogan saying this kind doesn't give you the munchies, but thanks Cyndi, you solved that problem. The munchies is just another market! No one has to draw up a new cartoon character to be the spokesperson, they're already plenty to choose from. Jughead? Shaggy? Shaggy might be a better choice because the munchies can be marketed as scoobie snacks. So much better than Joe Camel. | |
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| http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Study_Pot_slows_breast_cancer_1203.html
if only the puritans would get a life and learn to love we might actually make some head way on this issue.
Marijuana should be legal for all personal, medical and industrial uses | |
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| you think it helps or hinders meditation though? cuz i've heard both... | |
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| As a meditation tool? I think if your high, you'll think you're really making some kind of amazing breakthrough, but when you come down you'll realize you were just being high. Like an artist getting high to work, thinking they're doing amazing work. When they come down though, maybe it's not so genius as they thought. Really the people to ask about this is the Rastafarians. | |
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| yeah you make a very good point. thanks  | |
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| jimg - 2007-11-27 12:50 PM
Cyndi - 2007-09-20 3:27 PM
You guys....Shiva's favorite herb is Marijuana. I thought everybody knew that one!!
What's wrong with marijuana???
It causes lung cancer and bronchitis, memory loss and the inability to organize and integrate complex information, reduced sperm production and erectile dysfunction, increased risk of stroke or heart attack (due to increased blood pressure/heart rate and reduced oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood), impairment of the immune system, various short and long term mental illnesses and can result in arrest and possibly prison, depending where you live.
The traditional way to take marijuana for meditation is through bhang a drink. However, lung cancer? Where? Could you point out a case. Marijauna has never directly killed someone, alcohol kills hundreds of thousands. Besides eat or vape it no lung problems or bronchitis.
THC is shown to aid memory helping inhibit alzheimers. Mental illness? No evidence of it for people without a predispostion to problems and MUCH less than alcohol as a factor.
Impairment of the immune system? The study that showed that has never been able to be repeated and consequently there are no findings at present that this myth is true.
Lowers sperm production? Again nope not true in the long run. in extreme high doses it can temporarily lower the count but not permantly.
Marijuana also helps my mother in last stages of cancer go from five stone back to eight and live pain free and without nausea from her chemo.
It has aided meditation for many years when taken in moderation
I do not understand why people are so hung up on it, plenty of things harm us that are legal and these same people don't seem to waste their breath complaining as much (not pointed at the quoted postee ) The fact is it can help folk who wanna be helped by it and it can harm those that self destruct, we should be able to choose to have it especially as it kills less people (no deaths ) than aspirin (thousand or so a year ).
Some info about drug use in the past (before the 1950's racism kicked in this silly hysteria ) Course nothing is cool without moderation but hey it helps my meditation (for 20 plus years ) I can meditate without it but when i visit my brother in Holland I meditate with it and found it pleasantly beneficial.
Besides Rastas have used marijuana for meditation and still do as have other religious and historical groups , to say one cannot meditate on it denies their viewpoint completely which is rather rude and frankly arrogant! lol
According to Bharat-India myth, the Gods gifted humans with Cannabis so that we may enjoy Ananda-bliss. Another myth relates that when the Devas-Gods and Asuras-Demons churned the ocean, one of the many blessings released was Cannabis; which the Devas immediately called Vijaya-victory.
According to many references in the Rig Veda, Bhang - a drink made from Cannabis - was the favorite drink of both Siva and Indra (whose names mean 'Auspiciousness' and 'Lord of Heaven', respectively ). Siva advised that humans should chant the word "Bhangi" while smoking and drinking Cannabis, equally as we sow, weed and harvest the plant. Meaning, Bhangi is the mantra of Cannabis.
According to historians and archeologists, Cannabis has been used for some 10,000 years; certainly since the discovery of agriculture. In fact, Cannabis is considered one of the world's oldest cultivars; a plant with five purposes:
- hemp fiber (clothing and textiles )
- hemp oil (medicine and food )
- hemp seed (food )
- hallucinogen (spiritual awareness )
- therapy (used to treat illness )
Throughout its history, Cannabis has been considered a member of the nettle family, the fig family, and the hops family. It is said that Buddha ate six Cannabis seeds a day during his six year fast (some stories relate one seed a day ). In some depictions of Buddha, his Sadhu bowl contains Cannabis leaves.
According to the Arthava Veda - from which Ayurveda derives - Cannabis is one of the Somas - divine herbs or nectars given to man for their good health and long life. The Sushruta Samhita, written in the 6th century common era, lists Cannabis as an 'essential herb' for the cure from virtually everything from acne and dandruff, to cancer and leprosy, to sexually transmitted disease to insomnia. The Bharaprakasha Samhita, 1600 ACE, lists Cannabis as the primary cure to rid the body of phlegm, to ease digestive disorders, and enhance the voice (for both speaking and mantra ).
Certainly, in Bharat-India and Tibet, Cannabis has reached a state of refinement and importance in both daily use and religious observance. This fact can be seen in the many preparations of Cannabis, such as:
- Bhang = Cannabis mixed with spices and consumed as candy (maajun ), or tea (bhanga );
- Ganja = flowering tops pressed to induce chemical changes; then smoked with tobacco (charas ).
Finally, Tibetan Buddhism lists six steps of asceticism that all contain the use of Cannabis; primarily as a tool to faciitate deep meditation and heightened awareness.
Clearly, these examples relate that Cannabis is - first and foremost - to be used as medicine and to enchance spiritual awareness. In the West today, this is not the case. Mostly, today, Cannabis is abused, and so has become a social, moral and health hazard. Which is why the true history of Cannabis needs be researched and so understood: so that the original wisdom of this remarkable herb can be fully embraced in an intelligent and spiritual context.
The Classical Association Conference at the University of Newcastle upon Tyne was told yesterday that the Romans did it. Greeks did it. Even classically educated geeks did it. David Hillman, of the University of Wisconsin, was giving a lecture on recreational drugs in the ancient world.
His subject is the last wild frontier of classical studies. Almost nothing has been written about it. So Dr Hillman has collected thousands of references to mind-altering drugs in ancient literature. His conclusion comes close to suggesting that the Ancient Greeks and Romans, poets, philosophers, the man on the carriage to Piraeus, and the lady in the litter from Ostia were permanently stoned.
The Elder Pliny, that senior statesman, gives a recipe for the best method of obtaining opium from the darkest poppies. Virgil advises on the right time to cultivate the opium crop. Ovid, writing of his sadness beside the Black Sea, speaks of the soporific draughts that are the only things that stop his mind from brooding on his exile. The medical writers recommend opium mixed with wine or honey as the sovereign remedy for everything.
In The Odyssey, Homer describes Helen mixing narcotic cocktails for her guests to take their minds of their miseries. For an upper-class hostess to offer drugs to her honoured guests was not considered odd or inappropriate and certainly not illegal. What do you suppose that the Lotus Eaters were eating that made them forget their cares and homes? Pharmaceuticals were the regular social lubricant, drunk by party-goers listening to the bard singing his epic. Marcus Aurelius, so often cited by Jeeves for his level-headedness, took a daily dose of recreational drugs including opium.
Does this explain his laid-back view of life? Drugs motivated Pythagoras and Democritus (philosopher ) to travel the world, fascinated Nicander (pharmaceutical author ), were cited by Pliny as the secret of happiness and were a serious concern of Dioscorides (medical scribbler ) and the healing balm of Galen (quack — sorry, physician ).
The ancient social lubricant of alcohol and drugs was adopted enthusiastically by the Western world. We know about Baudelaire and Coleridge. But Dr Hillman argued that drugs were a powerful and perfectly legal recreation until the West started its “jihad” against a narcotics a century ago.
Drugs influenced ancient culture and Western intellectual development. But the ancients also recognised that drugs and madness were closely allied.
See Euripides in the Bacchae. The ivy and the vine and the poppy were closely entwined. In Greek the same word means both “witch” and “drug-dealer”. What do you imagine was in the drinks that Circe gave to turn men into swine? The Greeks and Romans may have recognised the pleasures of recreational drugs. But they were also aware of the mind-bending dangers | |
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| I've found that I want my experience to come directly from controlling my thoughts.
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Veteran
Posts: 258
| Very interesting text Sarah (dodge), thanks for posting it !
Since the ancient Greeks were mentioned, let me add to the above one wise ancient Greek phrase : "Pan Metron Ariston" which in a free translation means, "the best of all is to do everything with a meter"
Kristi | |
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| Being high as a kite does not make you Spiritual. Drugs will create obscure illusions. Meditation opens you up to reality, what is true. This all stems down to being in control. | |
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| I came to this topic from a google search after I had an amazing experience last night meditating and vaporizing marijuana and I wanted to see if others experienced the same thing.
First I would like to confront an issue I have seen here, a lot of people seem to be saying that there is documented evidence that marijuana is physically or mentally bad for you. I have read quite a lot of the medical articles on marijuana, and in fact wrote a large paper on the effects of marijuana for one of my biochemistry classes. I am a professional biochemist, I know an exquisite amount of detail of how marijuana acts in the body, and I have to say, I have never seen any evidence suggesting it is worse on the body than a cup of tea. I do have sources if anybody is interested.
I would also like to point out that it is true that marijuana alters a persons perceptions while they are under the influence, but it is impossible to tell if these perceptions are more or less accurate, in a subjective sense than a state of sobriety. Our minds process information through elaborate chemical and electrical messages and they were evolved by natural selection benefiting our survival, not provide us with objective truth about the world. For instance, matter, objectively, is mostly empty space, but our brains do not interpret matter in that way, because it is not beneficial to an organism to see this.
Perceptions of the world in a sober or drugged state are just that, perceptions, they are subjective. None is more "true" than the other.
Also, I would like to point out that someone had said that there are receptors that are only activated by THC (the main psychoactive ingredient in marijuana) this is not true. We do have receptors that are activated by THC, but also by compounds called endocannabinoids like anandamide. Stimulation of the CB1 receptor by cannabinoids has been found to stop seizure in animal models, and stimulation also leads to the production of anti-inflammatory agents, and in addition leads to the expression of genes that mediate the growth of new neural cells.
Now, to get to the real issue.
Last night I meditated while listening to a binaural beat and in-front of a screen flashing at the same frequency of the beat and I had just finished vaporizing some marijuana. I have been meditating for 2 years now for about 30mins a day.
I felt pure energy and concentration. I felt all human emotions passing through me in my lower stomach. They all left me, and I was alone in a void, devoid of desire, it was pure euphoria. This lasted for about 10 minutes.
Now I have been vaporizing marijuana for about 2 years now, I must say that this is an experience I have never had before, and I was curious if others have had this same experience? | |
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| Here is the paper I wrote on the subject. The paper is specifically "The endocannabinoid system and implications in epilepsy." But the first few paragraphs describe in extreme accuracy the exact biochemical pathway through which marijuana affects the CB1 receptors in the brain.
For thousands of years cannabis sativa and its extracts have been used to treat a variety of illnesses ranging from epilepsy to gastrointestinal issues. Unfortunately, during the early 20th century cannabis came under the attack of yellow journalism, and was renamed marijuana by the media. Through a series of smear campaigns driven by racism, fear, and politics, slogans such as “smoke one joint and you will want to kill your brother” and movies like Reefer Madness marijuana was made illegal. Eventually it reached the status of a schedule I drug, which according to the FDA means that it has a high potential for abuse, no currently accepted medical, value and a lack of safety. This scheduling has been highly controversial, and due to its legal status research has been difficult. Little research has been done and very few clinical trials have ever been conducted on humans in the United States. The focus of this paper is to evaluate the efficacy of cannabinoid receptor agonists on their ability to prevent or treat epileptic seizures.
In order to understand how a cannabinoid receptor agonist can have an effect on epilepsy it is important to be familiar with the basics of the endocannabinoid system in the brain. The endocannabinoid system is a recently discovered signaling system. Cannabinoid receptors in the brain were discovered in 1990[1]. These are G-coupled receptors with seven transmembrane regions. There are two known cannabinoid receptors: CB1 and CB2. CB1 is heavily concentrated in the central nervous system and is coupled with ion channels[2]. It is also the most ample G-coupled protein receptor in the mammalian brain although this receptor is also found in other tissues. CB2 on the other hand is more localized, found to be associated with immune cells, the pancreas and the lymphoid system. The two endogenous ligands to which these receptors are agonized were not discovered until 1992. Anandamide was the first endocannabinoid to be classified, followed by 2-arachidonoyl glycerol. Both of these compounds are derivatives of arachidonic acid and both endocannabinoids appear to bind to CB1 and CB2.
The activation of the endocannabinoid system is similar to other G coupled protein receptors in the way it produces a cascade involving protein kinase A, and cyclic AMP[3]. During high levels of neural activity calcium ion concentrations increase in the cytoplasm which promote N-acyltransferase to produce N-arachidonoyl phosphatidyl ethanolamine from phosphatidyl ethanolamine. This intermediate is further processed by phospholipase D to form anandamide. Anandamide, which is now free in the synapse, is subject to degradation by the enzyme fatty acid amide hydrolase (FAAH). However, if it is not degraded anandamide will bind to and activate CB1 . The G-protein dissociates from the receptor and inhibits adenylyl cyclase. Because of this, cytoplasmic concentrations of cAMP decrease, which in turn decrease the levels of PKA. PKA can stimulate the ryanodine, which mediate the release of Ca2+ from the endoplasmic reticulum. Therefore reducing the amount of PKA will reduce the amount of calcium leaking from the ER into the cytoplasm, which will reduce the neurons ability to become depolarized. The bound CB1 receptor activates the extra cellular signal regulated kinase pathway (ERK) which stimulates the transcription of genes encoding transcription factors c-fos, zif268, and BDNF. These transcription factors are known to help ameliorate the effects of excitotoxic damage caused by excessive neural activity[4]. This sequence has the effect of decreasing the likelihood of further neural excitation and putting in motion the creation of gene products that can dampen the effects of excitotoxic events. Furthermore, CB1 receptor stimulation has also been shown to reduce inflammation and promote neurogenesis[5]. The overall view of the endocannabinoid system is that it mediates the effects of over stimulation, reduces inflammation, and promotes growth of new neurons in response to overstimulation.
Epilepsy is a disorder which is characterized by excessive synchronized neuronal activity particularly in the cortical, hippocampal, and thalamocortical networks. Certain pathways in a person with epilepsy are prone to becoming repeatedly activated and can cause excitotoxic damage. In total over seventy genes have been identified as epilepsy susceptibility genes. Interestingly, none of the genes coding for the CB receptors have been found to be mutated in people with epilepsy. Several genes that encode for subunits of voltage gated ion channels have been found to be correlated with epilepsy[6]. This would make sense because if the voltage gated ion channels are not working properly, the state of polarization, or depolarization, could be effected dramatically. The progression of the disease is fairly simple. Epileptic seizures can be triggered by reading, sleeping, flickering lights, or often times, without a known trigger. Once an individual has one seizure, it becomes much more likely that they will experience more within their lifetime. This has been attributed to the hotly debated kindling theory of seizure progression [7]. Additionally, excessive neural activity can trigger molecular pathways that lead to neuronal death. This is called an excitotoxic event. If a cure is to be found, research into what causes seizures and what can stop them is necessary. However, using humans as research subjects can be unethical, therefore animal models are needed.
In order to study epilepsy in greater detail, animal models have been used to simulate epileptic seizures. Three in particular provide good insight into epilepsy: the maximal electroshock model, the pilocarpine model, and the kainic acid model. The maximal electroshock model is exactly what it sounds like: an electric shock is applied so that a maximal amount of test subjects, mice in this scenario, are sent into seizure. This model is most useful in determining seizure threshold, that is, how much electric shock is needed in order to induce seizure. During this procedure, an electric shock is admistered via corneal electrodes to mice who have either received a dose of anandamide or nothing (placebo), in order to determine how anandamide affects the seizure threshold. In the pilocarpine model, a special type of seizure is emulated called “status epilepticus” which is a seizure that lasts for at least thirty minutes before the subject regains consciousness. In this model, prolonged seizing is induced by intraperitoneal injection of pilocarpine, which is a muscarinic acetylcholine receptor agonist. This causes prolonged seizure, only to be stopped after thirty minutes when the mice are injected several times with diazepam. This model is useful for seeing the effects of prolonged seizing on neural tissue. The third model of importance is the kainic acid model, which is simply an injection of kainic acid. Kainic acid induces activation of excitatory pathways which lead to seizure. This model was used in order to specifically see if the CB1 receptors were important in the neuroprotective effects of endocannabinoids. All three of these models are also used to determine the relative efficacy of currently prescribed drugs for epilepsy versus the efficacy of cannabinoids, either endogenous or exogenous.
The most commonly prescribed drugs for epilepsy are the benzodiazepines, such as diazepam and lorazepam[8]. These drugs act by binding to the calcium ion channels and block them from allowing calcium ion entry[9]. This protects the neurons from further depolarization and therefore inhibits seizures[10]. Unfortunately derivatives of benzodiazepines have little to no beneficial effect on approximately one third of the epileptic population. In addition to this, a tolerance can result and the beneficial effects are eventually overcome by the negative effects of increasing the dosage, such as extreme prolonged drowsiness, suppression of REM sleep, and depression. As a result of these shortcomings, development of better anticonvulsants are warranted.
A popular alternative medication for epilepsy is ?9- Tetrahydrocannabinol(THC).
THC acts as a cannabinoid receptor agonist binding to both CB1 and CB2. This binding produces a cascade of events leading to a decrease in cytoplasmic Ca2+ concentration which reduces a neurons ability to become excited. This could prevent or treat seizures by reducing the probability a neuron will come into over excessive stimulation leading to an excitotoxic event. In addition THC being a CB1 receptor agonist could reduce inflammation caused by over stimulation, thereby providing a neuroprotective effect[11]. However, evidence is more important than what seems to make sense.
There is a body of evidence suggesting that both endogenous and exogenous cannabinoids can regulate epilepsy. For instance, in the maximal electroshock model, a 300mg/kg dose of anandamide reduced the amount of convulsions by 12.5%. More impressive however is that a 300mg/kg dose mixed with a fatty acid amide hydrolase inhibitor, phenylmethylsulfonyl fluoride (PMSF), reduced the amount of convulsions by 100%. This would appear to indicate that much of the anandamide is broken down before it can activate the CB1 receptors. This is confirmed when using a synthetic cannabinoid dubbed O-1812. This compound, which is not hydrolyzed by FAAH, produces 100% reduction in convulsions without any PMSF. This would suggest that other exogenous compounds that activate the CB1 receptor and are not susceptible to hydrolysis by FAAH would produce similar results given that binding affinities are similar. In addition, when using a CB1 antagonist like SR141716A, the amount of electric current necessary to produce convulsions in 50% of test animals drops significantly, from 17.57mA to 14.27mA in test mice. Basically, this means that if the cannabinoid receptors are not working, or if there is an insufficient concentration of cannabinoids, the possibility of seizure increases. In the pilocarpine model it was found that treating the rats with CB1 receptor agonists strongly reduced seizure frequency, and that CB1 agonists were more efficient in their ability to reduce the seizures than phenobarbital and phenytoin, which are two prescribed anti-convulsants. The CB1 receptor agonist in this model was 10mg/kg THC. The kainic acid model confirmed that it is through the CB1 receptor mechanism that cannabinoids direct their anti-convulsant properties. To do this, the researchers engineered mice without CB1 receptors and then injected them and their wild-type litter mates with kainic acid. The results showed that the mice without CB1 receptors were much more prone to convulsions due to kainic acid injection versus the wild-type mice. In cell cultures of hippocampal neurons with low Mg2+ treatment, which induces seizure, it was found that treating the cultures with concentrations of anandamide as low as 1µM was able to completely stop seizures, whereas phenobarbital was not able to stop seizures until a concentration of 100µM was applied.
It is clear that the endocannabinoid system is involved in the regulation of neural stimulation through the CB1 receptor cascade. The evidence shows that manipulation of the endocannabinoid system can stop seizures. The evidence also seems to warrant further investigation into the ability of synthetic or natural exogenous cannabinoids to prevent or treat seizures. However as the evidence stands, it appears that there is some validity in the use of THC as an anti-convulsant but should not be recommended because of the lack of clinical trials with humans. Also it has been postulated that prolonged activation of the endocannabinoid system could actually contribute to epilepsy[12]. Further research using double blind clinical trials with humans are necessary in order to determine the efficacy of CB1 receptor agonists on reducing epileptic seizures within humans, specifically using THC as the receptor agonist.
Cited Sources
[1]Lutz, Beat. "On-Demand activation of the endocannabinoid system in the control of neuronal excitability and epileptiform seizures." Biochemical Pharmacology 68(2004): 1691-1698.
[2]Croxford, J. Ludovic. "Cannabinoids and the immune system: Potential for the treatment of inflammatory diseases?." Journal of Neuroimmunology 166(2005): 3-18.
[3]Grant, Igor. "Cannabis and endocannabinoid modulators: Therapeutic promises and challenges." Clinical Neuroscience Research 5(2005): 185-199.
[4]Mechoulam R, Spatz M Endocannabinoids and neuroprotection. Sci STKE 2002;2002(129):RE5
[5]Marchalant, Yannick. "Cannabinoid receptor stimulation is anti-inflammatory and improves memory in old rats." Neurobiology of Aging (2007):
[6]Miriam H. Meisler and Jennifer A. Kearney (2005). "Sodium channel mutations in epilepsy and other neurological disorders". Journal of Clinical Investigation 115 (: 2010–2017.
[7]Goddard, G.V. (1967). Development of epileptic seizures through brain stimulation at low intensity. Nature, 214, 1020-1021.
[8]Deshpande, Laxmikant. "Endocannabinoids block status epilepticus in cultured hippocampal neurons." European Journal of Pharmacology 558(2007): 52-59.
[9]Taft WC; DeLorenzo RJ (May 1984). "Micromolar-affinity benzodiazepine receptors regulate voltage-sensitive calcium channels in nerve terminal preparations". Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 81 (10): 3118-22.
[10]Wallace, Melisa. "Evidence for a physiological role of endocannabinoids in the modulation of seizure threshold and severity." European Journal of Pharmacology 452(2002): 295-301.
[11]Eljaschewitsch , Eva. "The Endocannabinoid anandamide protects neurons during CNS Inflammation by induction of MKP-1 in Microglial cells." Neuron 49(2006): 67-79.
[12]Bisogno, Tiziana. "Short- and long-term plasticity of the endocannabinoid system in neuropsychiatric and neurological disorders." Pharmacological Research 56(2007): 428-442.
Uncited Sources
Marchalant, Yannick. "Inflammation and aging: Can endocannabinoids help?." Biomedicine & Pharmacotherapy (200: 1-6.
Optiz, Christiane. "Production of the endocannabinoids anandamide and 2-arachidonoylglycerol by endothelial progenitor cells." Federation of European Biochemical Societies 581(2007): 4927-4931.
Marchalant, Yannick. "Anti-Inflammatory property of the cannabinoid agonist win-55212-2 in a rodent model of chronic brain inflammation." Neuroscience 144(2007): 1516-1522.
Panikashvili, David. "The endocannabinoid 2-AG protects the blood-brain barrier after closed head injury and inhibits mRNA expression of proinflammatory cytokines." Neurobiology of Disease 22(2006): 257-264. | |
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Location: London, England | Hi there,
Welcome to the board. I suggest that more research is needed. I would like to donate my brain and organs before death and volunteer as a guinea pig-you can feed me marijuana, bright lights and a heavy bass line over a period of two years, and carry out any experiments you want. . That second post looks very interesting, will get back to you later, cheers
Nick | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Count me in too. I would like to experiment with the pure organic no pesticides South American red-bud variety, | |
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Location: London, England | Hi Cyndi,
This is a private conversation between me and the poster Oh ok, I'll have what she's having
Nick | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Should've used the PM feature if you wanted a 'private' party Nick. Of course you can have some of what I'm having...it's some good stuff, | |
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Location: London, England | Hi Cyndi,
Can't I have most of it, rather than some of it ? I'm bigger than you, it's only fair
Nick | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Oki Doki, suit yourself.... but be forewarned...bigger is not always best. I wouldn't want you OD'ing or getting lost inside your mind forever. We might not be able to get you back and oh my goodness, I would never forgive myself. A little bit of this stuff sure does go a long way, | |
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| I always find it interesting that people who smoke marijuana always find proof that it is good for you and those who are against marijuana always find proof that it is bad for you. Personally, I see both sides as I see value in it's occasional or medicinal use and danger in it's chronic use. Again, I choose those facts that support my position just as people on both sides of this debate choose the facts that support their position. | |
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| jimg - 2008-05-23 5:26 PM
I always find it interesting that people who smoke marijuana always find proof that it is good for you and those who are against marijuana always find proof that it is bad for you.
Im not arguing that it is "good" for you. Although under certain circumstances it definitely can be a wonderful medicine. What I am arguing is that it is NOT bad for you.
I have never seen any sort of medical evidence suggesting that occasional or chronic marijuana use posses any health issues more serious than a cup of tea or coffee. I am talking about real science here, published documents in peer reviewed journals, not the DEA website.
What it boils down to is that some people think politicians know more about our health than our doctors and scientists do.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Actually, too much marijuana will deplete the "jing" essence of the human body, starting in the kidneys. But, we all know that too much of ANYTHING is BAD for you. So there ya go. The only reason politicians are involved is because of the $$ factor. Go read the history books and see what we had to go through to get liquor and beer legal....its ridiculous!! | |
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| Here is a discussion of the pros and cons of marijuana use:
http://www.meriter.com/LIVING/LIBRARY/chemical/marijuana.htm
I do understand that alcohol is legal and if used (abused) chronically has VERY negative health and social effects. I also understand that one does not smoke a joint and then rob the local store or beat their wife as is often true with alcohol. (Smoking marijauna does have similiar problems for those who drive while stoned.) The difference between a medicine and a poison is usually the dosage and frequency.
nornerator,
I really enjoyed your point that all our perceptions (sober, stoned or whatever) are totally subjective, not "reality"! Our brains only process a very small part of what our eyes see and our eyes only see part of the light that is reflected off what we are looking at. Our conscious minds only recognize a small part of that because we filter it through our personal and cultural beliefs and our subjective memories of prior experience.
jimg
Edited by jimg 2008-05-25 4:41 PM
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| I"m not a user because I found it didn't do much for me other than give the giggles for 5 minutes, make me hungry, then tired and irritable. I think though that had Bayer or Roche discovered marijuana it would be hailed as the new wonder drug. Just because something is natural does not mean it is not dangerous. Senna is a powerful laxative found in nature that can kill you if you take too much. I believe that marijuana does have legit medical uses like pain relief but I think it can do a lot of damage if used incorrectly. | |
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| I came to yoga through marijuana. While high one night I felt the strong urge to stretch and the stretching turned into something resembling the yoga I'd learned in classes a few years prior. I had taken a dozen or so classes once upon a time but never connected with yoga. Coming back to yoga while high on marijuana was very odd, very beautiful and profoundly effective for reducing and eventually eliminating years of tension and stress patterns my body had stored up over a few decades. I practiced yoga on my own, generally while on marijuana, for about a year before I started attending classes again.
Meditation began for me in the same way - while stoned I began to meditate spontaneously at first and then with more focus. I have had incredible meditative experiences while stoned but had to learn to relax and trust myself and the marijuana before I was able to fully appreciate the doorways that opened for me. Overcoming worry and fear is the biggest obstacle. Marijuana helped my body and mind learn to relax and focus. It was tricky to learn because there is so much out there that tells us that pot will only cause negative effects, but the reality for me was the opposite. Completely the opposite. I have a lot of respect for marijuana and am grateful for the place it has led me to. I don't recommend it because most people have difficulty overcoming the paranoia that can first come with marijuana. It takes a strong and steady mind to sift through the noise and see for yourself what the effects are. There is such a culture of fear built up around marijuana that the spiritual benefits are generally ignored or misunderstood.
My meditation now is occasionally helped with marijuana but I have moved into a place where I am able to access different parts of my mind best while not on it. My yoga practice is the same way. The deep tension has been released and now I'm just having fun with it. I will always appreciate the helping hand that marijuana lent me. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | You know, I sometimes wish I were born in Nepal. My husband was telling me that when he was growing up he would make a paste out of marijuana leaves and add it to hot milk. They drank this tea all the time...can you even only imagine,
Again, I'll reiterate this....Marijuana is Shiva's favorite herb, | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Lucky Sinclair,
That was a very nice and elegant post. I liked what you had to say very much. | |
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| jimg - 2007-11-27 12:50 PM
Cyndi - 2007-09-20 3:27 PM
You guys....Shiva's favorite herb is Marijuana. I thought everybody knew that one!!
What's wrong with marijuana???
It causes lung cancer and bronchitis, memory loss and the inability to organize and integrate complex information, reduced sperm production and erectile dysfunction, increased risk of stroke or heart attack (due to increased blood pressure/heart rate and reduced oxygen-carrying capacity of the blood), impairment of the immune system, various short and long term mental illnesses and can result in arrest and possibly prison, depending where you live.
I've been lurking on the forum for some time. This post hits home for me and encouraged me to lurk no longer and register.
Where do you get your information?
Lung Cancer/Bronchitus........for the smoker, yes. But not for the vaporizer.
Memory loss organizational dysfunctions are temporary (only while high ).
Erectile Dysfunction????
Stroke and heart attack? Maybe for the smoker, but not for the vaporizer.
Personally,
I don't view MJ as a drug. I have my reasons, but this is not the right place to debate the classification of, the legality of nor the side effects of MJ. I have been meditating for just under 2 years now. I started meditating "sober". As I became more comfortable with my meditations and my progress, I added MJ into my meditations and it works for me. It enhances my whole experience. Mind you, I am a daily embiber. Not to the point of being "f*#cked up", or "blasted", that's not why I smoke. It's more of a spiritual thing for me. It enhances everything for me. Believe it or not, It helps remind me of the path I'm on. In social situations, its effects remind me to keep my eye trained on the bow of the boat, the here and now, not the wake left behind. In social settings, the effects of the herb remind me of realizations that I incurr during meditation, which, in turn, reminds me to act in accordance with these realizations. Things like tolerence, forgiveness and acceptance are what I'm reminded of. Can I do these things on my own? Sure I could. Do I want to do live this way? Absolutely. Do I always remember? Absolutely not. But that's me.......And I find that it works for me......And for me, that's why I meditate. To be a better person to my fellow man.
Sorry if I offended anybody. | |
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| I'm generally inclined to think that yoga and meditation should make marijuana obsolete for the practitioner. Overall, my experience with weed is that, used occasionally, it could have very beneficial effects in terms of alleviating depression in the short term, and inspiring creativity. However, in the long term, it tended to simply prevent me from dealing with the underlying causes of my depression, and made me extremely uncreative and apathetic. Nowadays, I find that yoga plays a very similar role in my life to that formerly played by pot, without the negatives. But, that's just me; I'd never think of denying others their bong hits.
drjay1966 http://yogaforcynics.blogspot.com | |
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| Marijuana:
Health Effects
Immediate/short-term effects of use/intoxication
• Produces state of relaxation, happiness, euphoria (a drug "high")
• Can intensify perceptions (sounds, colors seem more intense, enjoyment of music or art may seem intensified)
• Increases appetite and thirst
• Produces dry mouth
• Dilates blood vessels, including in the eye
• Reduces intra-ocular pressure
• Can decrease nausea
• Impairs time perception
• Impairs attention, judgment, and other cognitive functions
• Impairs ability to store and retrieve learned information—thus, it impairs memory (by affecting the hippocampus)
• Impairs coordination and balance (by affecting the cerebellum and basal ganglia)
• Increases heart rate (by affecting the hypothalamus and brainstem)
• Can cause anxiety and panic attacks (by affecting the amygdala)
• Slows reaction time
• Impairs ability to focus attention and shift attention
• Impairs ability to track objects moving into or across one’s visual field
• Impairs perception of velocity and acceleration of other vehicles on the road
• May affect implantation of a fertilized embryo in the womb
• Can impair erections
Persistent (lasting longer than intoxication, but may not be permanent)
• Produces tolerance
• Produces withdrawal
• Impairs memory and learning skills
• Can lead to depression and decreased motivation/interest
• Can affect work/school attendance/performance
• Can interfere with adolescent emotional and cognitive development
Long-term (cumulative, potentially permanent effects of chronic abuse)
• Can lead to addiction
• Increases risk of chronic cough, bronchitis, and emphysema
• Can interfere with immune system
• Increases risk of cancer of the head, neck, and lungs
• Decreases testosterone levels, sperm counts, and sperm motility
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A marijuana high usually lasts two or three hours, during which a wide range of effects may occur, varying both in intensity and quality. The usual, most noticeable effect is intensification of sensation and increased clarity of perception. Visually, COLOURS are brighter, scenes have more depth, patterns are more evident, and figure-ground relations both more distinct and more easily reversible. Other sense modalities do not have the variety of visual stimuli, but all seem to be intensified. Sounds become more distinct, with the user aware of sounds he otherwise might not have noticed. Music, recorded and live, is heard with increased fidelity and dimension, as though there were less distance between the source and the listener. Taste and smell are also enhanced under marijuana. The spice rack is a treasure of sensation, and food develops a rich variety of tastes.
Skin receptors are also effected. Heat, cold, and pressure receptors become more sensitive. Pain produces paradoxical effects. If attention is not on the area of pain, there is a reduced sensitivity to the hurt. But awareness of pain from a lesion, such as a burn or cut, will often persist for a longer period than usual, even allowing for the changed perception of time under marijuana.
Awareness of proprioceptive responses is enhanced. The person using marijuana may become aware of usually automatic, non-conscious, muscle tensions, small movements, feedback and control processes, and feelings of physical comfort and discomfort. These can be perceived with great clarity and distinctness.
Such effects vary with the individual and the situation. Sometimes one modality will predominate; sometimes a sequence of effects will occur; sometimes nothing will seem to happen. The direction or modality of effect can be often manipulated by the individual if he deliberately exposes himself to the stimulus, such as music, or paintings. However, such setting may not affect the perception if the person is not otherwise ready to respond in that way. Effects more often call attention to themselves; the user observes what he is experiencing in the situation and realizes it is not how he usually experiences the stimuli. On the other hand, some sense modalities may function in a straight pedestrian manner, neither being enhanced nor diminished.
The person himself is the most important determinant of how the enhancement will appear. Some persons orient primarily to visual stimuli and visual thinking, others to sound, others to tactile impressions. Visual orientation seems to predominate among persons in our culture; audile and tactile thinking is less common. It seems likely that sensory enhancement of a marijuana high would be most noticed in the predominate sense modality of the user; it certainly should have a differential response in relation to less used ways of perceiving.
Another factor which affects the response is that persons unfamiliar with the marijuana state frequently must "learn" that they are perceiving experience in a different way. That is, someone makes them aware of changed perception by showing them objects, playing music, and calling their attention to the difference in sights and sounds. Then they become consciously aware of the perceptual changes. This initiation procedure has led sociologist H. S. Becker (Becker, I963; partially reproduced in Solomon, I966) to suggest that most of the effects of marijuana are learned, not spontaneous. He says (accurately, I am sure) that the user must learn to notice the effects, categorize them, and connect them to the total experience of using the drug. What is learned in most cases is not a new way of perceiving, but the awareness of a change in perception. Few persons observe what they are doing in the sense of observing their seeing, and it is not surprising that many should have to learn how to become aware of themselves experiencing by checking current perception against memory and expectations.
The user's internal psychological needs will also influence his response. A fear of being overwhelmed by too much input will often reduce any changes to only those which the user can cope with or to changes only in certain modes. A fear of losing control over the perception of experience may suppress most of the effects and even shut down responses to below normal. On the other hand, emotional involvement with some part of the environment may enhance its perception. Internal physical needs also affect the response, e.g., hunger may be intensified so the person finds himself ravenous on getting high.
For a person using marijuana for the first few times sensory changes occur sequentially, rather than all at once. First he may notice increased brightness and clarity of colors, then sounds, then visual structures, such as paintings or designs. (Two dimensional photographs and motion pictures may be seen in three dimensions in the marijuana high, a perception which can be transferred to the normal state under certain conditions.) Then proprioceptive sensations may present themselves. Any order of the effects may occur during one high state or several. Often effects will develop to particular levels and then stabilize without further elaboration. I know some individuals who listen to music during a high, and this is their major use and apparently their only enhancement.
There are two states of awareness which relate to these sensory effects. The basic one can be called pure awareness. In this state the person is completely and vividly aware of his experience, but there are no processes of thinking, manipulating, or interpreting going on. The sensations fill the person's attention, which is passive but absorbed in what is occurring, which is usually experienced as intense and immediate. Pure awareness is experiencing without associations to what is there.
The other state of awareness is one which can be termed conscious awareness, in which the sensory experience is connected to meanings, plans, functions, decisions, and possible actions. This is our normal way of perceiving and how we usually go about our daily lives. We do not sense the world directly, but with the incorporation of our memories, meanings, and uses. In the state of pure awareness objects are experienced as sensory qualities, without the intrusion of interpretation. There are examples of this in normal life. The sensation of sexual orgasm may be (and hopefully is) experienced with pure awareness. Natural beauty, such as flowers, mountains, oceans, and sunsets, is sometimes experienced from a point of awareness without adding conscious thinking.
These two processes of awareness have been described by Charles Solley and Gardner Murphy (1960, Chapter 14) as non-reflective consciousness and reflective consciousness. Alan Watts compares the awareness state to a floodlight of attention, which shows a broad area and lights up anything that is there. Consciousness awareness he compares to a spotlight, which is focused and can be directed, though on a narrower area. This is a good analogy in pointing out that no deliberate directing is done in the awareness state, although it is sometimes the case that the area perceived in awareness may be a small one seen in great detail.
The awareness state can be called "choiceless" because choice is a part of consciousness functions. Decisions made outside of consciousness are not called "by choice" since choice implies conscious action. In a state of direct awareness there are no choices made and no decisions or actions occur. The stream of sensation flows and the person is aware of what is happening; if he acts he does so without consciously deciding to move. (That is, action is handled by some process other than the consciousness monitoring the awareness experience.) When complicated action becomes necessary conscious attention is activated and the sensation is used as stimuli, criteria, or information for the choices, plans, or action.
The awareness is not always experienced purely under marijuana, but often is mixed with some, though reduced, conscious attention. Consciousness, conscious awareness, or conscious attention involves a connecting function which observes experience in relation to past experience, memory images, memory recording, expectancies, plans, goals, etc. This type of consciousness may intrude on the awareness state at a low level. However, when awareness fills the attention there is a "becoming lost" in the experience, in which there is often not even a memory of what occurred. This seems to be a state in which consciousness functions are not present, and all experience is at the level of awareness. Consciousness, attention, and memory recording are apparently not active. (It is possible that attention was present and either was not remembered or the memory is not accessible to consciousness.) Such a state of pure awareness is at one end of a continuum of varying degrees of conscious activity, with the other end at a state in which the contents of awareness are used for decisions, plans, inferences, etc., and are not experienced for their primary sensory qualities; they are information rather than experiences.
This analysis suggests a reason for sensory enhancement under marijuana, a movement of attention from consciousness processes to awareness processes. We usually think of attention as synonymous with consciousness, but it is an uneasy synonymy. Consciousness seems to be more than attention, but we cannot describe a consciousness without attention. Perhaps it is possible for attention energy to move into sensory processes and operate less in the decisional, deliberative processes of consciousness. If this happens it would provide much more energy for attending to sense data, and we could expect the sensory experience to be more vivid and more detailed.
Intensity of sensory experience seems related to the total proportion or amount of attention which is involved in the process. If attention is used in conscious or unconscious processes in making decisions, remembering, evaluating, etc., then this much is removed from the awareness of the sense experience. Thus it may be that one of the causes of sensory enhancement under marijuana is that attention energy moves from consciousness processes into awareness processes, which amplifies the experience.
TIME DISTORTION
Besides sensory enhancement, the other most immediate effect of marijuana is a change in the perception of time: events take longer to occur. Bach's first Brandenburg Concerto lasts hours. An hour seems to have passed, but the dock records 25 minutes. The person's internal fantasies are long and involved, but only a few minutes have passed in government time. In this state the fantasies and music do not move at a faster pace---they move at their own usual rate, though often more fluently and more dearly. The impression is that external time must have slowed down, while the internal experience continues at the same rate. There is not the impression of speed or rapidity, but that the time available to the user is magnified.
There are similar effects in normal experience. Time spent at a boring talk seems to pass more slowly, and one thinks in dismay, "What, only five minutes have passed since I looked at my watch?"
A method used by Linn Cooper (1956) to induce time distortion under hypnosis is useful to note here. A metronome set at one beat per second is used. The hypnotized subject is told that the metronome is slowing down to one beat every two seconds, every five seconds, once a minute. Verbally or conceptually we can now say that the subject's internal rate has remained the same, but external time relative to the subject has slowed down. Has the subject's own pace actually speeded up? I do not know, and I can think of no reliable criteria for determining this. Brain wave research shows that the basic alpha rhythm can be speeded up by a flickering light (called photic driving), but not very much, and not even to twice its normal rhythm. Cooper's subjects report that they do mentally imagine the amount of thoughts appropriate to the expanded time available, including counting imagined objects. This may be a convenient hallucination or it may be an accurate description of what they do. (Even calculation of real problems would not be a valid test because calculating geniuses can answer complex mathematical problems almost instantaneously, and this ability may be available under hypnosis, though it has never been reported to my knowledge under marijuana or hypnosis.) In this procedure under hypnosis and also in marijuana the subjective experience of time is disconnected from the marking of social or government time.
The effect under marijuana is analogous to effects in visual and sound modalities. Visual scenes often have more depth, sounds are heard with more dimension; so too with time-there is an expansion of the fabric of time so there is a feeling of depth instead of the usual two dimensional flow.
The explanation of this sometimes given by marijuana users is that more is happening: they are thinking faster or more thoughts are occurring in the same time period. This could cause external time to be relatively slower. Although it need not be the case that internal processes change at a faster rate it is possible that a person is aware of more perceptions in a given amount of time as a result of the enhancement of sensory data. With visual enhancement more details of the movements of the self and others are attended to. This means that more information is perceived in the same amount of time. This is also true of proprioceptive and tactile responses. Time is somewhat conditioned to a normal rate of information input in particular contexts. One has a "standard rate of intake" and if the amount of information is increased for a unit of time, then one of the responses may be that time is going slower. To be conscious of any change in experience there must be a comparison with previous similar situations. Thus if the time experience while high is compared with a similar normal experience, or with a time pace constructed from normal experience, it may be perceived as slower.
A more important cause for time distortion under marijuana can be found by noting how persons normally judge the passage of time, then investigating the changes in these criteria caused by marijuana. This is rather difficult because no one knows how we judge time. Nevertheless there are some relevant observations which can be made.(1)
Notice the situations in which time seems to alter for many persons in everyday experience and out-of-the-ordinary experience. These are situations in which the experience itself is the focus of attention, they are not means to extrinsic goals. Persons totally involved in making love seem to have no awareness of how much time may pass. Persons in a state of anger do not become aware of time lapse until the emotion subsides or ego controls are invoked. Psychotherapy hours in which emotional material is covered seem to be out of time awareness. Mystics become unaware of the passage of time during meditation, as do persons having peak experiences (Maslow, I964). In dreams, daydreams, fantasies, ecstasy, and strong emotional states, the sense of time is absent or changed. And in the state of pure awareness, as I have used the term, there is no perception of the rate of time. These are all personal experiences in which conscious attention is not dominant, and immediate experience, rather than goals, expectancies, plans, and decisions, is predominant. Time perception is a socially reinforced response. The experiences and states I have described are not states which are socially conscious; they are not internally subordinated to social time or schedules. Anger cannot be paced with conscious control, nor can ecstasy. Feelings, fantasies, dreams, and awareness do not incorporate the sense of time which is built up by and maintained in the consciousness. Thus when one is experiencing such content there is no marking of the passage of time, and to the extent this material is the content of awareness, the less social time is noted. Immediate experience is always timeless; time is perceived in relation to the uses of experience in controlling or predicting the future or interpreting the past, the present being perceived in relation to past or future. This is one of the major functions of consciousness. In a normal conscious state when the internal or external input is to be changed or manipulated the time required is automatically projected, based on past experience. This imposes the knowledge of time on the consciousness. One of the effects of marijuana is to reduce the strength of expectancies and goals which are socially reinforced. Thus non-time experiences are increased in relative strength and time oriented associations are decreased, which creates the sense that time is expanded.
Some indication that this is what occurs may be seen in reports of marijuana users that time passes instantaneously. One girl reported that when high she suddenly discovered 45 minutes had passed without her realization of this. And there are reports of listening to music when the individual realizes the music had stopped, without his remembering hearing the selection as it was playing. What happens in these cases is that most of the person's attention is in non-time processes, so that time passage is not noted until the social consciousness returns. Then it seems that no time has passed, since there was no process noting its passage. Just as in sleep, amnesic hypnosis, or anaesthesia, there is no consciousness of the duration of the state, and the conscious time flow seems unbroken from the moment of falling asleep to the moment of waking.
When observing sensory stimuli, listening to music, fantasying, etc., there is the feeling of expanded time because the outside experiences are overwhelmed by the mental, internal experience which is not marking time and there is no way to gauge their pace. The quantity of the time change varies. If the user is almost totally involved with the awareness processes, with little conscious attention, then there will be little sense of duration, and long periods of clock time will go by quickly.
Events themselves are timeless, in that they are always in the present---they do not echo their past nor presage their future states; we alone do that to them, for ourselves. And we ourselves do not experience the past or the future; we experience memories or expectancies, which may be realistic or fantasies. So our experience of the passage of time is based on our comparison of present experience with our remembrance of the past, usually the immediate past, or our anticipation of the future and how we get there.
Marijuana decreases the strength of the automatic memory, expectancy, and anticipation processes; thus the perception of an experience is not surrounded by the usual multitude of past encounters, future possibilities, and potential uses. In contexts requiring action on the basis of expectations and plans, such as driving an automobile, they are available and often with more focused attention. Given a situation not requiring activity or decisions, the penumbra of response patterns, functions, and potentials surrounding experience decreases, and the immediate experience per se is perceived, rather than its position in a pattern of change. This decreases comparison of the present with the past, and again reduces the feeling of duration or passing of time. ("Passing of time" is a curious phrase, because time passing cannot be empirically observed. One may conclude the passage of time by observing changes in experience, but it is not really an inference either. What seems to be described is the mental reviewing of the preceding changes which led up to the present point. Re-running the succession in memory from some point up to the present gives the sensation of passing time. We are aware of events which are different from the ones we now experience but that are connected by physical changes in which we have participated (directly or through observation). This awareness may be "awareness of the passage of time."
In summary, under marijuana, the sense of time is distorted. First, because mental contents and awareness processes which are not connected to time needs or markers are strengthened. These include daydreams, fantasies, event memories, peak experiences, emotions, and the pure awareness state. Second, because goals, anticipations, and expectancies are decreased in prominence, reducing attention given to possible changes in the environment, which decreases awareness of future states. Third, memory of immediate past experience is decreased in strength, which reduces knowledge of change and moves attention to the present. If consciousness is completely passive, and non-time elements fill attention, then the experience seems timeless. If some consciousness processes and associations are maintained time will seem to have slowed, as attention moves among the various contents.
EXPECTANCIES
Both the intensification of sensory experience and the expansion of time are part of an increased attentiveness to immediate experience in contrast to memories of the past or plans for the future. Memories and plans are experienced but only as they arise out of the immediate content and needs of the person's internal and external experience; they do not automatically operate as in normal consciousness. Every action and potential action, in the normal state, is evaluated according to its consequences: what results will follow. Mental processes imagine as many consequences as they have experience to do so, both immediate and long range, testing these consequences against criteria or goals of valued states. The consequences which are most valued control the action. For example, if a person feels angry toward another he may want to insult him verbally. He mentally anticipates the possible consequences of this action, which may include the release and satisfaction of the anger, feelings of masculinity, enhanced self concept of strength, etc., on the positive side, and the anger or disapproval of the other person, loss of self control, fear of his own impulses, what his mother would think of the action, etc. on the negative side. Depending on the person's past experience, his needs and strengths of various values, the action will be taken, modified, or inhibited. Every action a person engages in is surrounded and extended mentally (consciously and unconsciously) by such expectancies, and every situation experienced by a person is responded to by anticipating its potential consequences and relating them to desirable and undesirable conditions. (Of course, the opposite of such action---its inhibition---is also subject to the same processes.) Some of this process is conscious, especially when the situation is new, unfamiliar, very important, or ambiguous, but most of the expectancy and anticipation process is done preconsciously. Normally persons are not aware of the activity which occurs to determine an action; expectancies have become incorporated into automatic responses.
The mind is efficient in making its activities automatic. First an action is consciously made in response to a need or situation. If it is successful (reinforced) it becomes habitual, and is taken automatically without the need of conscious attention, much as driving a car, sewing, tying your shoes, and smoking a cigarette are all composed of large blocks of now automatic actions which once had to be done with conscious attention at every point. Later only the major elements must be controlled with conscious attention, such as changing lanes when driving, searching for an ashtray, etc. How can an action be released without conscious attention? What must happen is that criteria for action and the particular action are connected by the conscious mind; then the process can be made automatically. When the criteria are fulfilled, then the action is made.(2) This suggests that there is some process or energy which releases action but which does not need conscious attention. Similarly, most of the expectancies around experiences are not conscious---only the more important ones or ones which are so complex as not to be automatically used.
Such expectancies and anticipations function to keep behavior consistent, goal directed, and reasonably integrated. They help avoid conflicts within the personality and with the environment, including other persons. They have obvious survival value and undoubtedly are reinforced by our society and our own needs. The function of reinforcement is clear: The reinforcement value of the projected consequences of an action come to affect our decision to take or not to take the action. These expectancies are responses to possible futures, and orient our actions to the future} not the present.
One of the major effects of marijuana is to decrease the strength of these expectancies and anticipations, on both conscious and preconscious levels. Thus in the high state the expectancy processes decrease their influence on behavior. Since these are always oriented to future states, they take attention away from perception of immediate experience and turn it to following imagined states. Thus when attention given to imagined states is reduced, the perception of the present experience will increase in strength or intensity, either because more energy is available for such awareness or because there are fewer processes to attend to, and present experience becomes relatively more predominant in the mental field. This enhancement of immediate experience is reflected in the effects of marijuana on sense data and time perception. Indeed, the decrease in expectancies, which are connected to goals, may be one of the reasons for the change in the awareness of time, since time is perceived in terms of changes, including changes in relation to a potential state of affairs. If the knowledge provided by expectancies is reduced, then the immediate experience will not be seen as a point in time with a future, but more as an event, per se.
The reduction in the strength of expectancies also contributes to the increase in intensity of sensory experience. Objects as well as situations and actions are surrounded by our potential responses to them, such as our past experiences with them, how we might use them, other forms they have taken, how they are made, their qualities in other sense modalities, etc. When we perceive an object, whether a fire in a fireplace, a photograph of a fire, a fire engine, or a fiery speaker, not only are we aware of the object, but also we have incorporated in our awareness these other elements which give structure and meaning to the sense data. Thus we know that the object is a bird cage or a rib cage, and we know its qualities, functions, and potentials. Usually these are keyed to our verbal response, our classification, but they are known non-verbally as well (e.g., we can have emotional responses or motor responses without verbal responses).
FUNCTIONAL ASSOCIATIONS
Particularly important to us is the function of objects.(3) One sees this in a child's definition: a hole is to dig. A bridge is to walk over to get to the other side. Someone said that home is "A place where when you go there, they have to take you in." There is an essential effect of these operational definitions: they force classifications rather than specificity. Any hole is to dig and how hole X differs from hole Y is not important so long as each can be dug. My home is not different from your home, since they will both take us in. Such definitions attempt to capture some particular criteria of whatever they define. The criteria of definition are the only characteristics which need to be observed in perceiving the object, and we are trained to perceive in this way. We learn as children to see the function of objects and to see the similarities of objects, rather than experience them in all possible ways. The advantage of this is obvious: we survive because we can use the environment, we can generalize, we can cooperate within a socially constructed reality. The disadvantages are obvious: we may not see reality except in terms of functions, which shuts out an enormous amount of reality (some of which would be functional in various contexts). And often persons see objects only in terms of their own functional needs, which narrows their perspective considerably. (Psychologists might see persons as experimental subjects, an insurance salesman might see one as a prospect, etc.)
This leads, incidentally, to failures of discrimination in perception, illustrated by the classical occidental observation that all Chinese look alike, and no doubt Chinese observe the same about occidentals. One of my friends took an astronomy course and discovered that stars were not all the same color, as he had previously perceived, but were red, blue, yellow, and white. This led him to realize that all trees looked alike to him. Of course he would not have said that they were identical, but I doubt if he could have told the differences between an elm and an oak, even standing in front of them, because a tree is with leaves and to be shaded by. And after all, which of us could easily describe essential differences between two holes dug by a child in the sand at the beach? Though the child probably could.
Under marijuana the functional associations of objects are decreased in strength. In addition to this specific association, other associations such as verbal labeling and memory constructs of such objects are decreased in strength. Normally all these elements are imposed on the conscious experience of the object, some incorporated into the perception (such as seeing the object as a teapot) and some claiming attention on the periphery of consciousness (such as knowing it is hot and not touching it). When these associations are decreased there are fewer mental impositions on the sensory perception of the object. Aspects which would normally be shut out (such as a blemish on the teapot or the shape of the handle) are given equal attention, and hence are seen instead of being ignored. When attention is directed by goals, as it usually is in the normal state, it is simply not given to non-functional stimuli, i.e., elements that do not have anything to do with what the person wants at the moment.
The person under marijuana is not seeing this object as "flowers" with a mental image of flowers and his memories of flowers being confirmed by these flowers, which are to look at and smell and if one can look at and smell these one has confirmed that they are flowers and that settles that part of reality, and so on to another. Rather he has a great deal of time and it is not urgent what uses these have or what consequences could result and much more of his awareness is filled by these flowers.. And there are textures, colors, shades, shapes, feels, crevices, shadows, smells; all things that are there; experienced rather than used.
An important principle is that you can experience something only if you do not think in terms of its function. You can know what it is only if you do not impose what it will be or could be or ought to be. This often becomes quite evident under marijuana.
This suggests a principle regarding processes of attention. When attention is reduced for some elements in perception, the amount given to other elements increases, as though attention is a mobile amount of energy, and when a quantity is not needed at one point it moves to another point. This is consistent with Freudian theory, which holds that as energy is released from conflict points it becomes available to the general system. With marijuana, when association processes reduce their demands on attention, it flows to whatever else is in the consciousness. (I am using a fluid metaphor, but other models will do equally well. Electrically one can speak in terms of activation. Cybernetically we could refer to homeostatic balancing of elements. Or we could talk of homunculi leaving the study and going to the patio.)
ASSOCIATIONS
This reduction of associations is an important basic effect of marijuana. It contributes to the expansion of time, to sensory enhancement, and to the increase in attention which is given to the focus of consciousness. However, not all association patterns are decreased in strength in the high state. Well known are the flights of fantasy and dreaming stimulated by hashish and cannabis.(4) And in non-fantasy high states users have reported that they can perceive connections and associations of ideas that were not accessible to them in the non-high state (usually called "straight" by users). This seems inconsistent with what I have just said about the decrease in association strength. However, while associations, particularly those based on social learning, are reduced in strength, any association may gain in strength if it becomes the focus of the detailed attention possible under marijuana. Thus fantasies and creative thinking may have increased associations and may be more fully developed than in the normal state of consciousness.
The associations which are reduced in strength seem to be those which are learned through social reinforcement: meanings and behaviors which are taught by society. Functions of objects are socially taught. Patterns of communication are social. Language and verbal knowledge (Columbus discovered America in 1492) is social in origin. Inhibitions and controls on behavior are socially reinforced, and are often incorporated into the verbal system through "should" and "should not" statements. When social norms are the same as personal needs, desires, and meanings, there is consistency in the response to a situation or object. When conflict between social and personal directions occurs it must be resolved, and usually it is resolved in favor of social meanings, functions, and approved behavior (usually called rational). Thus the social perception of a situation may exclude many of the potential meanings, behaviors, and emotions. Under marijuana this excluding function of socially learned associations is reduced in strength. The excluding function has certain survival value. It keeps our consciousness from being dogged up with unnecessary and distracting contents. Thus a scholar looks at a book and notices the title but not the binding; for a book binder the opposite is the case. Associations which contribute to the goals of society are learned by persons through social reinforcement, and one effect of these associations is to inhibit other associations. Marijuana decreases this inhibition and lowers the reinforcement value of the association. In effect this makes all associations more equal, and the network of associations is less guided or channeled in socially reinforced directions. A person who is high may be aware that an object is a pencil, but he may successively also see it as a shape, a phallic metaphor, a geometrical solid, the printing on it, etc. He has more associations once they are away from the strict control of social perception.
INHIBITIONS
The same pattern can be seen in expectancies and anticipations. Socially oriented behavior makes great use of expectancies to control behavior in an effort to maximize approval and minimize or avoid disapproval, which are social reinforcers.(5) Such behavior thus involves a large amount of inhibition. By inhibition I mean any kind of control to prevent activity from reaching a certain level. The activity can be thoughts, action, fantasies, or emotions. Inhibitions in Freudian terms are controlled by anti-cathexes, in learning theory by aversive stimuli, and in terms used here, by expectations of aversive stimuli. Inhibitions need not be on anti-social acts, but are often to direct behavior into patterns normal in our society. Persons maintain appropriate social distances (which are arbitrary), you do not tug at the beard of someone you have just met (though the thought may cross your mind), and a man does not cry in public. These may seem minor but they are controlled with great power by social reinforcement, as can be seen by the strong rejection of the behavior if it occurs. Of course, inhibitions are also placed on behavior which would be dangerous to society, such as aggressive or destructive acts.
When behavior is inhibited, the psychological tendency is to inhibit any mental activity which might lead to such behavior. Feelings, impulses, images, fantasies, etc., may be inhibited and decreased in strength, or even prevented from entering consciousness. Such inhibited feelings and impulses may appear in consciousness in the high state, often without effort of the person. This may cause anxiety and the person may use ego defense measures to block their appearance or diminish their threat. On the other hand, he can also use methods of analysis and self-therapy in the high state to deal with conflict material, and may free himself from neurotic responses.
The effects of the reduction of social inhibitions can be seen in various ways. At marijuana social gatherings persons may not feel pressure to participate in conversational games, play behavior increases, physical activity may increase. The decrease of socially reinforced inhibitions also accounts for the actions of users which claim public attention: jumping over fireplugs and parking meters, uninhibited dancing (erotic and non-erotic), and playful behavior (which is subtly taboo in our society). Here the person is expressing impulses in behavior which would usually be inhibited by expectancy of negative social reinforcement (frowns, rejection, blame, punishment and other expressions of disapproval). However, this reduction in strength of social inhibitions does not usually result in anti-social acts (unless jumping fireplugs is considered anti-social). This is curious because social inhibitions are usually considered the bulwark against committing crimes, aggressing against others, raping women, etc. But we do not have cases of contemporary users of marijuana burglarizing or attacking others, though such effects are evident in the use of alcohol, where users are much more likely to express violent and aggressive behavior.
Why then if inhibitions are reduced in strength do not users become violent and aggressive? One reason may be that aggression is usually specific to situations and expectancies about situations, and the use of marijuana today rarely is in a conflict situation. With reduced pressure from memories and expectancies one would also expect less non-relevant feeling. Beyond this, one of the psychological effects of marijuana is euphoria. Thus anger and aggressive impulses are less strong and do not draw much support from the rest of the personality. This effect may also be related to the decrease in the strength of social reinforcers, since chronic anger is often the result of conflicts between social requirements and personal desires.
ATTENTION
The process of attention is clearly affected by marijuana. The most obvious effect is to narrow the amount of diverse contents in the focus of attention. The person under marijuana usually perceives fewer objects of attention, which may mean physical objects, actions, social elements, emotions, etc. We have already noted this effect: a person who is high may become absorbed in an object, event, or process to the exclusion of everything else. A train of fantasy may occupy all of a person's attention. This is a psychological analogy of tunnel vision, with the contents of the tunnel expanded.
In the normal, straight state, conscious and non-conscious processes give continual attentiveness to many internal and external stimuli, with responses such as awareness, memories, expectancies, and the many associations we have already noted. Many of these are conscious, especially those on which decisions are necessary. Others, and probably the bulk of the responses, autonomously operate without being consciously attended to, and come to consciousness only when necessary. These are in a preconscious state, but nevertheless involve perception, associations, memories, and expectancies.(6) Such processes often regulate behavior when consciousness does not intervene (as in driving a car automatically). But whenever novel stimuli appear or more than routine decisions must be made, the contents become part of the conscious state.
In the consciousness processes connections can be made among several types of information, and in different contexts of meaning---making connections with the many factors relevant to a decision or the resolution of conflict.. Conscious attention moves easily from one interpretation to another interpretation of information, with the various memories and expectancies which go with each interpretation, thus obtaining more information for the decision. These interpretations and associations are drawn from the preconscious processes, which, alone, cannot make interconnections among themselves as fluidly as can consciousness. Connections of ideas are made in preconscious states, but these seem based on almost any relation, from contiguity to puns. Consciousness can select the significant or realistic connections and systematize their use.
We can regard the conscious system as the system which does just that: selects and interprets information in relation to a goal or purpose. It does this when it is activated by attention energy. It may be that attention is the activating energy of awareness. Attention usually is in the conscious system, which consists of processes which select information to make decisions. It can also be activated in preconscious contents, which contain information, emotional values, and random associations. Most of the time awareness is of the conscious processes.
Under marijuana attention-awareness energy may move into the preconscious system and be less in consciousness processes. Since there are fewer elements in attention the person is more strongly aware of any individual element of meaning, memory, emotion, etc., and less of its relation to other elements which would be relevant in the conscious
system. Whatever is in the center of attention occupies all of awareness: this may be sensory data, such as visual stimuli, or imagery, such as fantasies. The effect can be termed a unity of attention, in that all attention is focused on one subject. In normal conscious states, several channels can be used at once, e.g., reading a book while listening to music. Attention may alternate, but even so keeps all channels of input on the edge of attention. This does not occur with marijuana, which so far as awareness goes, fills the attention with one thing at a time. If one is recalling an experience from the memory, then almost all attention is on the event, and almost none on the external environment, expectancies or plans. Processes in normal states which seem to parallel this would be extreme concentration on a book or television, exciting conversations, and the state of romantic love.
It is not the case that there is less attention, for the quantity seems at least the same. Analogically it is as though a portion of a photograph were blown up to the size of the original picture, thus maintaining the size of the print but increasing the magnification of a smaller relative section.
Some of the processes which contribute to this effect are obvious. The reduction in expectancies and associations reduces peripheral contents of consciousness. Many of these elements are maintained continuously at a low level, appropriate to the environment and needs of the person. Some items are continuously monitored, much as a hostess may habitually check how each of her guests is getting along. Such monitoring takes some attention away from any central content, just as the hostess may not concentrate fully on her own conversation if she is attending to the state of her party. However, without the need for these side glances, attention flows to the central subject. This means that the plans, anticipations, etc., are not automatically attended to, although if such an element enters the central position it receives the intense central attention and is attended to in great detail.
Peripheral attention and its contents are reduced in the high state; central attention receives the energy which would otherwise be used in peripheral attention. This could be because each type of attention is different, and thus differentially affected, or because the peripheral contents are reduced in strength because of the reduction in the strength of associations. The latter seems to be true; the former may be also.
MEMORY
One of the processes important in perception is the comparing of current input with similar past experience. When we see a friend, a memory image of his face is presented to our consciousness along with the sensation of his actual present appearance. This memory image (which can be called a schema) blends with the current sensation, so that the perception is a combination of the two. The relative strengths of each source of information probably vary from person to person. Some primarily perceive the memory image, with the sensory input serving as confirmation of the identification. For others, the memory image may be so weak that reorientation and identification is continually necessary. Though the construction and recall of this image is not clearly understood, it must be partially constructed from previous experience of the stimulus (including verbal knowledge) up to a point where the person knows all he needs to know for purposes of his response. After this, encounters with the stimulus do not add to the memory image appreciably; further discrimination is unnecessary and the image stabilizes. (Of course, the person may continue to make discriminations. One of the valued behaviors in science is to make perceptual discriminations for which we have no functional need, assuming that such information is valuable per se or may be valuable later.)
Most persons rely principally on memory images in perception unless there are evident differences in the immediate situation, and their responses are keyed to the memory image. Consequently we do not respond only to immediate experience. We identify current experience according to past experience and then respond on the basis of past experience, modified by whatever differences we perceive to be significant in the current information. Our actions originate from past experience, they are connected to the structures built up in our memories, and these memories are elicited by the immediate stimulus. In unfamiliar settings, no memory image is available. Then we must deliberately and consciously act, randomly act, follow instructions or models, or act according to the most similar memory image. Any situation is a combination of elements, and may call for complex combinations of memories and response patterns, some new, some familiar.
Marijuana has two effects on this process. The first is to reduce the general automatic availability of memory images; the second is to increase the strength of memories when they are relevant to central needs. We have already discussed the general reduction in strength of memories in response to current experience, which is principally in the automatic recall of memory schema. The strength or visibility of the mental image is reduced, with a resulting increase in the brightness of the data themselves (there being nothing else to look at). This explains also why experiences seem new: they are observed without the feeling of familiarity caused by memory images. For most persons in straight consciousness it is likely that sensation is checked against a memory image (at a preconscious level) and what is seen from the current stimulus is what is necessary to fulfill the criteria for identification, based on the memory schema. The relevant elements, the criteria, are affected by the goals or functions which are important to the person. We do not perceive dust on a typewriter when we look for something to type on. When we look for a friend in a crowd we do not look at his face, we identify it. Similarly, in conversation and daily life we generally know what we are seeing, so perception is more identification than observation. However, when fewer memory images are available, as when high, one must respond to the sense data as unfamiliar material. This may cause anxiety, depending on the individual and the environment, or it may result in pleasure at the enhancement or challenge of current perception. It may also increase the potential responses, since there is less pressure for a learned habitual response, which would normally inhibit other responses.
(This may, incidentally, suggest an explanation for the jamais vu sensation, in which there is the feeling that a normally familiar situation is totally unfamiliar. Several experiences of jamais vu reported to me seem to have occurred when there are unfamiliar emotional elements present, as though the usual memory schema and their associated responses were not available.)
At the same time, some memory images may be strengthened if they are emotionally salient. A person having paranoid fears, for example, may find his imagery increased in strength. One person reports that once when high he observed a friend sitting to one side of him staring directly at him. He turned to face his friend and found him looking in another direction, his face turned partially away from him. Apparently a fear activated the image of a full staring face, which was superimposed on the profile of the other person. It may be that psychotic or schizophrenic perceptual projections are partially caused by increased internal imagery. Under marijuana, at least, emotional force may activate internal imagery which is used to search for, identify, or interpret incoming stimuli.
So also if the person deliberately attempts to recall past experiences there will often be increased recall, either of events in great detail or Hashes of experiences. This is particularly true if there is salient emotional content. Recall which appears to be eidetic may occur under marijuana, and images which are like playbacks of the original perceptual experience may become accessible at will to conscious attention. If the conscious attention is allowed to unfocus, so that only monitoring is going on, almost instantaneous images can be obtained of visual and sometimes auditory or tactile stimuli. The image must be seen when it occurs; if there is an attempt to hold it in consciousness a mental composite image takes its place. It is possible that what occurs is an activation of the actual memory record, selected from the stream of consciousness which is recorded in the brain.(7) Only one flash comes at a time. This ability, incidentally, has been transferred to straight, non-high control after it has been observed under marijuana. The essential feature seems to be in allowing the conscious attention not to try to hold on to the image when it appears. One must learn to see rather than look.
Another type of memory which is strengthened is that for emotion-laden events. Strong emotional responses, such as grief, fear, guilt, etc., often arise under marijuana. These are responses to remembered events, responses which might normally be suppressed. Usually the person's sense of identity is functioning, so he can either accept the emotion and be a part of it, which is usually therapeutic, or reject it, which may produce dissonance and anxiety. "Bad trips" are sometimes caused by emotions or pressures which threaten the person's self concept or his sense of control. While suppression processes are usually not too effective as defenses, distraction is, because of the mobile flow of attention under marijuana. For this reason, movement such as dancing, running, exercise, showers, etc., will usually change the emotional tone.
One other effect on memory should be noted. Normally we have a short-term recall process which holds memories in access for about 20 minutes, and then a long-term storage, which is permanent. In the high state, short-term memory becomes shorter, and in very high states the sequence of thoughts is not remembered past one or two transitions. The sequence can sometimes be recalled with an effort, or reconstructed, but there is no automatic remembering as there is normally. On the other hand, after the high, events within it can be remembered, indicating that at least some of the experiences are being filed in long-term memory.
Partly due to the reduction in strength of memory there is less intellectual control over the stream of consciousness. Memory seems to be needed to maintain concepts or goals under which to manipulate thoughts. Another cause of the reduced control is the lowered inhibition processes, which are used in thinking to filter irrelevant material and keep it from cluttering the conscious attention. Logical ideas and connections may also be enforced by such inhibitions; these would be loosened by the decrease in association strength.
VARIABLES
In general for marijuana to have effects the user must cooperate with it and facilitate the effects. He must learn to allow himself to respond. There are some persons whose response to marijuana is almost unnoticeable; their consciousness seems not to change. These may be persons who have fears about and strong defenses against losing control, and elements of their feeling, thoughts, or action which threaten their control are strongly rejected. Such personality systems are endangered by marijuana effects and often maintain their structure against these effects. Sometimes they will respond, but what effects are occurring will be blocked from their conscious awareness. The most noticeable effect is often time distortion, indicated by long silences and broken often by a comment that nothing is happening.
The effect of the physical and interpersonal setting on the response to marijuana is strong and usually controls the tone of the experience. The basic fact is that the individual creates the reaction, not the drug. If the person feels under pressure, then the drug will enhance his feeling of stress, and the effect will depend on how the person can deal with the stimulus. If he feels energetic, the drug will enhance his willingness to be active. Some persons become less self- conscious, others more self-conscious. Some move physically, others sit quietly. Some talk, others are silent. Users of marijuana are as individual as they are. For this reason, one must expect different effects to occur from different times and varying physical and interpersonal surroundings. For some the effect is quite different when smoked alone than with other persons, probably because social situations elicit different personality elements and present various pressures.
These variable factors should be noted in considering research and investigation of the effects of marijuana. The plant probably does everything anybody has claimed for it, but only in a situation which enables it to do whatever is claimed for it. One highly respectable philosopher and author, who has explored a variety of chemicals, says that marijuana will take a person as far as LSD. To which I would add, especially if you can go as far as LSD on it. This is not tautologous, for it cannot be said of coffee or orange juice; even if you are ready, coffee will not take you there.
There are further effects of marijuana which relate to complex structures of association, learning, values, intra-personality communication, interpersonal perception, and consciousness. It is difficult to separate the awareness of these effects from the effects of the awareness. It seems best to stop at this point, having discussed what seems verbalizable at present.
Given facilitating conditions, the effects I have described will develop. Sensations are enhanced and clarified: sight, hearing, taste, touch. Time perception changes. Attention becomes more unified, and moves more into preconscious material and the state of pure awareness. The many broad processes of association, such as social meanings, memory images, expectancies, and plans are reduced in number and relevance. Inhibitions and suppressions relax, allowing emotions, thoughts, fantasies, and memories to How more freely. The development and strength of these effects will depend on the individual, the times he has used marijuana, how he has used marijuana, and the environment.
(1) See "Time and the Unconscious" by Marie Bonaparte (1940) for speculation on this problem from the framework of psychoanalysis.
(2) This is the behavior structure described insightfully in Plans and the Structure of Behavior, by George Miller, Eugene Galanter, and Karl Pribram (1960).
(3) An excellent discussion of this and other relations of language to perception is in Semantics and Communication, by John C. Condon (1966, Chapter 3).
(4) Accounts of such experiences can be found in The Drug Experience (Ebin, 61).
(5) Julian B. Rotter (I955) discusses this process in "The Role of the Psychological Situation in Determining the Direction of Human Behavior."
(6) By preconscious processes, I mean a state of mental functioning which goes on outside of conscious attention. Lawrence Kubie describes this foggy territory in Neurotic Distortion of the Creative Process ( 1961 ) .
(7) This kind of recall can be obtained by electrical stimulation of the brain. See Wilder Penfield and Larnar Roberts' book Speech and Brain Mechanisms (1959), Chapter 3.
From: Altered States of Consciousness, edited by Charles T. Tart, Doubleday & Co., 1972, Chapter 22
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| 420,
Thank you for sharing your college essay. Why are all your sources from 1972 and earlier? Since a lot has happened since the 60's, I hope that you have not been too stoned to notice.
jimg
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| A. Not a college essay, just a compilation of facts and thoughts......
and.....
B. Does it make a difference that the references are pre 1973? Because the info is older ......does that make it less accurate or relative?
I'm not big on debating this particular topic, but I do enjoy a good volley of ideas and educated opinions. With that in mind, ......there are two issues here that bother me.........
First, there is the "too stoned" crack. I did not attemp to justify your previous statement of supposed facts by challenging your state of sobriety. I merely asked a question. A question that, as simple as it may be, still is unanswered........Which leads to my second issue.....
I simply asked a question......"where do you get your facts"? (A question you still have not answered.) You posted a response earlier that indicated you had knowledge of this particular situation. I just wanted to know where your facts are derived from. I posted my sources, old as they may be. They are sources nontheless. Sources I used as part of my education on the subject matter at hand.
If we are, in fact, going to debate this issue, let's do it like gentlemen. Challenges of a personal nature are not warranted. I am obviously on one side of the fence and you are on the other. This aside, we could each learn from each other and our respective opinions, provided they are educated opinions.
I have an open mind.........
Do you? | |
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| 420,
Please excuse my inappropriate remark. My attempts at humor are not always successful and I was being a bit nasty. Would you agree that the first priority of any organism is its survival? By smoking mj you are limiting your ability to react physically and mentally to danger and diminishing your cognitive skills, therefore decreasing your chances of survival. You are a danger to yourself and others when driving a car, you cannot perform routine tasks is a safe way (cooking or using machines or sharp objects), you can't perform fine motor skill actions like playing a musical instrument, etc etc. I am aware of what you can and cannot do while under the influence of mj from personal experience as well as from reading a variety of research on the subject. I have also known many users and non-users over many years and have seen the results. I am not against the occasional, limited use of mj, but would like to point out that there are very real dangers to its chronic or frequent use. Frequent users are much more likely to have unsuccessful personal relationships, poor economic situations and generally poor performance in life. How do I know this? I am Finance Director of a large non profit agency that provides mental health and chemical dependency treatment. I am well aware of the lives of our clients. I am also well aware of how these people's lives are transformed once they discontinue their use of mj. I do realize that there are insights that can result from mj or LSD type drug use. I have been the beneficiary of some of those insights. I also realize that many more people ruin their lives than recieve insights. There are many better ways to recieve those insights. Yoga is one of them!
jimg | |
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| Point taken, well sort of.......While I do accept that there are those that suffer from the inadequacies that you describe early on in your reply, finacial challenges, defective personal relationships etc, I believe they are only a portion of those whose imbibe frequently. They are, however, the portion that is more readily available to those that wish to criticize the use of the herb. For example.......I smoke and venture to my backyard to weed the garden. End of story. On the other hand, the group of punk kids on the corner smoke, go for a ride in the car and have an accident. One event appears in the local newspaper's 'Police Blotter' section and the other event fades away, only to live in my memory banks.
Now let's take into account what you do for a living.......Does anyone ever come to your facility and proclaim "I have no dependency issues, I'm fairly well grounded, of sound mind and body and I am financially solvent"? Probably not. Point I'm trying to make is that while your profession exposes you to one extreme of MJ users, it completely shields you from the other.
One last question I'd like to pose regarding the individuals you are exposed to at work is.......Are their problems really derived solely from MJ use, or, could they have underlying issues? Maybe addictive personalities? Maybe compulsive disorders? Maybe psychological disorders?
Point I'm trying to make is, don't form an opinion based solely on experiences from the negative end of the spectrum. I understand that you have had personal experiences, but 40 hours/week outweighs once in a while.
Yes, I suupose the desire of every living creature is to defend itself, and protect its life and well-being at all costs. However, we as humans are different from all other living organisms. We question, probe, explore and experiment. We think for ourselves. Sometimes this outweighs the survival instinct. Do you think we, as a society, would have electricity, penecillin, vaccinations, air travel, fossil fuels, free speech, freedom of religion, the right to vote, the right to trial by a jury of you peers, etc, etc, etc, if someone didn't supress the primal urge of self preservation? (BTW, don't get me wrong, sometimes you just wanna catch a buzz. MJ is NOT always philosophical.)
And I can still play an instrument while intoxicated........lol
As with ANYTHING......moderation is the key.....If you can't control your urges, you shouldn't be doing anything until you deal with your control issues.
Enjoy the weekend......and thanks for the tolerance | |
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| 420 - 2008-07-12 4:11 PM
And I can still play an instrument while intoxicated........lol
You can still play, but your playing is severely compromised although some musicians think that they are playing better. I worked as a professional classical musician for many years and still play. (I have performed with everything from the Vienna Symphony to the Electric Light Orchestra). You may think that you can play OK on mj or alcohol. Unfortunately, non-stoned listeners will find that your playing suffers. You mentioned how you can get more into music under the influence. If you develop your musical awareness to a higher degree, you can get even more out of music (both playing and listening) without using a chemical to alter your perception.
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| If you are smoking once a week or less, you are probably a "recreational" user. If you smoke more than that, you are addicted, psychologically, physically or both. If smoking helps you pull your weeds, GREAT! Just don't become a compulsive weed puller!
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You can still play, but your playing is severely compromised although some musicians think that they are playing better. I worked as a professional classical musician for many years and still play. (I have performed with everything from the Vienna Symphony to the Electric Light Orchestra). You may think that you can play OK on mj or alcohol. Unfortunately, non-stoned listeners will find that your playing suffers. You mentioned how you can get more into music under the influence. If you develop your musical awareness to a higher degree, you can get even more out of music (both playing and listening) without using a chemical to alter your perception.
I think you'll find that certain styles of music are enhanced and others are not. Classical music is ordered in a very different way from jazz and many other styles which are favored by those who prefer a different mindset than the one you seem to cultivate. You cannot make an absolute comparison that one style of music is better than another. If you develop your musical awareness of certain styles to a higher degree, you might even get more out of the music if you were stoned. Millions of people do.
To put this in another way, to function well in a certain mindset you should abstain from cannabis, to function well in another mindset you should use it. Both mindsets are completely natural.
Here's an example of cannabis-influenced music, and I wonder if you think it's crap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dP4Ptadp1iA
Edited by Michael 2008-07-31 2:36 AM
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| i dont think that marijuana is good for health, i live in himalyan foothills where marijuana is grown in bulk quantity. many people come here not to learn yoga but to drink and smoke marijuana. | |
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| I agree with the opinion that the true yoga practicer would not need marijuana. You would already be relxed and calm. However, I used to smoke it with friends in high school and I will say I liked it. I think as a past time for responsilbe adults there is nothing wrong with it, but it shouldn't be done all the time for health reasons. Drinking and smoking cigerettes are by far worse for you that weed. And since I hate liquor and beer...........
I guess its just a choice. But yoga in itself is all you really need to relax. | |
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| Recently I had a cigar and after a 7 year hiatus without alcohol I had a drink.
The drink was a beer.
The beer was from Ommegang, a subsidiary of Duvel, in Belgium.
I love the memories of the good weed I've had, but, it doesn't beat a good beer. Besides that, weed is illegal and a well crafted cigar is a great experience.
If weed was legal, then I'd probably smoke it, but it's illegal in the USA, so, there, that's it.
Property always trumps the have not groups, always has, always will.
Obey the golden rule, that is, the one with the gold makes the rules.
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"You can still play, but your playing is severely compromised although some musicians think that they are playing better. I worked as a professional classical musician for many years and still play. (I have performed with everything from the Vienna Symphony to the Electric Light Orchestra). You may think that you can play OK on mj or alcohol. Unfortunately, non-stoned listeners will find that your playing suffers. You mentioned how you can get more into music under the influence. If you develop your musical awareness to a higher degree, you can get even more out of music (both playing and listening) without using a chemical to alter your perception." Quoted from jimg.
First of all I would like to say hello to you all and that I have found this thread to be particularly riveting. I used to be an avid marijuana smoker in my first two years of high school but now I only smoke once in a blue moon. I came across this thread after doing some independent research on marijuana's neurological, physical, and psychological effects. I was exceptionally pleased about the paper outlining the biochemical pathways of endocannibinoids as I have been curious lately about the specific processes of that subject.
My opinion on the root topic of this thread is that you should try smoking while meditating; it's the only way you can truly find out if it works for you or not.
I would like to draw attention to jimg's quote. It is not possible to say without a doubt that marijuana negatively affects musical ability. There is none and there can be no conclusive research into the subject to classify it as a fact or even a scientific theory; there are too many things to take into account. The effects of marijuana and every other drug are different for everyone. I think most of us can agree, even if we don't like his music, that Jimi Hendrix was damn good at what he did even though he was high as a kite 9/10 of the time. Sure one person may be worse while playing high, but another may have his or her musical ability unaffected or even improved. I do believe that music is a science that one needs to learn and comprehend in order to truly play well and that marijuana and music used concurrently should only be used for the enjoyment of the musician only. I used to love sitting down and playing guitar while stoned; I'd close my eyes and absorb myself into the music and it didn't matter whether it was good or not. I also completely agree with the last sentence of jimg's quote. I must admit that music never really seemed all that great or awe-inspiring to me while I was high. It was just music.
In the end, marijuana is like sickle cell anemia; good in moderation but bad when you get too much of it.
P.S. Jimg, did you really play with both the Vienna Symphony and ELO? That seems highly unbelievable to me. If you could list any specific concerts that you have performed in with both/either I would be very interested. Of course, I guess I shouldn't doubt, one of my friend's dad was a backup singer for ABBA and is now a poor construction worker.
Edited by versesfromtheabstrac 2009-01-15 11:51 PM
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| versesfromtheabstrac - 2009-01-15 8:48 PM
It is not possible to say without a doubt that marijuana negatively affects musical ability. There is none and there can be no conclusive research into the subject to classify it as a fact or even a scientific theory; there are too many things to take into account. The effects of marijuana and every other drug are different for everyone. I think most of us can agree, even if we don't like his music, that Jimi Hendrix was damn good at what he did even though he was high as a kite 9/10 of the time. Sure one person may be worse while playing high, but another may have his or her musical ability unaffected or even improved.
Since you can't drive a car safely while drunk or stoned, how can you play an musical instrument that requires the finest nerve sensitivities and accurate spatial perception? The use of drugs or alcohol causes you to be temporarily physically impaired. (Chronic use can cause long term impairments.) While this may make sitting around playing the guitar for yourself more enjoyable to you, your fine motor skills are nonetheless impaired. Jimi Hendrix was used to playing with impaired motor skills and that was how he both practiced and performed. Just because he got used to and good at performing with an impairment does not make it less of an impairment.
Do you think that athletes would perform better after smoking marijuana? Would you want the pilot of your airplane to have smoked a joint right before takeoff? Musicians are also performing a physical task that requires not only exceptional gross and fine muscle control, but sensitive listening, focusing and the ability to instantaneously adjust time and pitch. All of these functions are altered and/or impaired by drug use. (I doubt that anyone would consider Jimi Hendrix to be a sensitive performer. He also had a very short career due to his drug use.)
How you feel or perceive things while under the influence of drugs is very individual, but the physiological effects are similar for everyone. If drug A relaxes your muscles, it will relax almost everyone's muscles. They may feel relaxed, energetic, happy, depressed or whatever, but they will all have less muscle tension. Less fine motor control = poorer musical performance, regardless of how you feel about it. | |
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| I'm a regular user and have spent some time meditating (shamatha, vipassana and vajrayana) using it to good effect. I got a lot of my current techniques from a book I bought a couple of years ago called "Cannabis and Meditation, an Explorers Guide" by Simon Jackson, which has allowed me reach fairly regular bliss states. I don't know the rules here on posting URL's so I wont enter it here, but it's an easy google. This is from the book:
Why cannabis and meditation?
Why do some cannabis users seem to get shifts in awareness, or find themselves growing more 'spiritually-minded' as time goes by? And how can a drug that seems to induce soporific states have any place in meditation? Doesn't Buddhism in particular warn against the use of any intoxicant as being detrimental to meditation?
Well, actually what the Buddha warned against was the use of intoxicants that may result in you losing proper awareness of reality, 'mindfulness'. But, using cannabis, depending on type, dosage and personal circumstances at the time of ingestion, doesn't always result in us becoming vegged-out and half-asleep. On the contrary, the states it can bring on are sometimes anything but vegged out, and it can actually create a far more balanced and lucid state of mind than just about any other recreational drug. Although it does have other useful effects, the ability of cannabis to get you to this state is one of the main reasons why it's of so much use when combined with traditional focussing ('shamatha') meditation styles.
One of the aims of many supporting techniques in all traditional meditation schools is to get you to a point where you can turn on, or remain permanently in, a state where you feel happy, totally relaxed and very mindful (aware) of the here and now. At a basic level, meditation itself is designed to initially take you to that very state, so, if we have a drug that allows us, with practise, to access this frame of mind, then it can reduce the time that you would normally spend on preparing your mind for deeper meditation methods quite substantially, and being at the just right level of high can provide a good basis, a solid 'ground', for us to meditate effectively within. The reason that these simple basics are so important is because a relaxed and happy mind is clearer and more able to sense the subtle changes in awareness that can lead to powerful meditation experiences. If they're in place as you meditate, or even just consider truths about the ultimate nature of reality, then you're far more likely to get a proper glimpse of enlightenment as you do so.
But, even with cannabis, many of us will need help reaching the right depth of physical and mental relaxation that's required, and will also need easy ways of generating a happy mind on cue. The aim of 'Cannabis and Meditation' is to provide simple, jargon free methods of doing all of the above, so that you can reach the base state both with and without cannabis, whenever you want to.
Unfortunately, cannabis enhances the effects of correct meditation and incorrect meditation too. Obviously, if you're tired, or doing too much cannabis, or the wrong type, or you pretty much go about your normal life while being high, rather than being aware of what the drug is doing to you, then it's less valid as a tool - and it can actually become a barrier to progress. But with the breadth of high caused by a good weed, or better still, eating a good hash, the ideal ground of meditation will open up for you to explore much more easily.
Reality
Using cannabis regularly and (hopefully) getting into a good, receptive state at the same time, changes our overall responsiveness to shifts in awareness, even when we aren't high. We also become familiar with the pleasant, relaxed feelings it brings on, and we become much more able to find them when we want to, and can even learn to keep ourselves in this happy condition through familiarity with it. But there's more; and the earlier question, 'why do cannabis users tend to become more 'spiritually' sensitive?' is a very important illustration of the processes in play at higher levels of meditation.
At one end of the spectrum there are traditional meditation methods that most of you will be familiar with, and there's no doubt that cannabis can help substantially with them. But at the highest levels of practise, meditation is far less about reaching specific states of mind, and much more about understanding the true nature of reality in an ultimate sense. Understanding reality correctly is the most powerful trigger for experiences of enlightenment that there are, and Zen in particular is is full of stories where this knowledge has triggered realisation, or 'Kensho', in its practitioners.
For this understanding to really work at its best however, we need to be in pretty much the same state that a good high will bring on. This means that when we're high we can be very receptive to correct knowledge, and can have spontaneous blisses, or experience altered states, just by thinking about reality in the right way – even if we don't truly understand what that 'right way' is...."
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Extreme Veteran
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| Marijuana does not reduce sperm count! Look at how many kids Bob Marley had! Marijuana does not prevent you being a good music artist- Listen to the Rolling Stones, Beatles, Bob Marley. Abuse of anything can certainly be harmful to ones health- even too many himalayan apricot kernels or too much chocolate. Natural Marijuana can certainly help people (I know many MS sufferers who find it more helpful than anything else).Its a natural plant that is holy in some cultures and we should not allow the governments of the world to influence our beliefs on it, as the government are only interested in making money and certainly the government is not interested in the truth and freedom. Unfortuantely Government scientists have modified marijuana to unbalance its natural balance of natural chemicals. These varieties which i hear are popular in America and Europe are very harmful. | |
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| Marijuana is a crutch. Plain and simple. If you use Marijuana to meditate to reach "enlightenment", which truly is the purpose of meditation, then you are not going to ever reach "true" enlightenment. The point of meditation is not just to reach a simple point of bliss. It is a way to reach an understanding of the universe and who we are.
I find that people that smoke weed have really poor memory. When I visited a friend (who regularly got high) on a weekend, to help him build his computer I asked him if he had tweezers or something similar and he said he didn't think he did and started building some pincer contraption out of old chopsticks and I looked at him and then his computer desk and grabbed a small set of needle-nose pliers that was sitting right next to the ashtray full of cigarettes and "mj-remnants".
That was me just visiting for the first time... he LIVES there. Marijuana is poor for the human body. Too many people, that are really bright individuals, end up borderline stupid because of MJ. That's just my observation. | |
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| vibes - 2010-10-12 8:13 AM
Unfortunately Government scientists have modified marijuana to unbalance its natural balance of natural chemicals.
These are the same evil Government scientists who spread rumors that marijuana causes paranoid delusions. Not only are they watching you, they have implanted tiny transmitters in the "modified" marijuana that broadcast your thoughts and they are monitoring them right now, so be careful what you think. They use GPS devices to watch your movements as well and sell much of this data to multi-level marketing companies and mail order companies to pay for their clandestine military operations. (Every wonder why you get so much junk mail?) There is, however, simply no scientific evidence that they are selling any of the data to aliens to obtain secret weapons.
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Extreme Veteran
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| Medicinal marijuana was originally developed my American Government scientists. Its thc percentage is higher than that of natural marijuana.Most of the USA and Europe are using this type of cannabis. As for the aliens etc, Im not so sure.But then again you know Americans are capable of believing the most riddiculous. | |
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Location: USA | OptiMystic - 2007-03-20 4:38 PM
I would strongly encourage you to continue meditating and you may find that it releases its hold on you as well. I think it would interfere with my meditation. Drugs make the percieved reality change by changing the perspective to an alternate perceived reality. Meditation shows you that the perception is an illusion; a completely different way to change "reality". Starting with one illusion layered on top of another would make this more difficult, IMO.
That's interesting. What is it about meditation that starts to slowly remove the urge to smoke marijuana? Might it be that the meditation itself provides some of the benefits that people find in smoking marijuana? | |
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Location: USA | jimg - 2010-10-12 4:27 PM
vibes - 2010-10-12 8:13 AM
Unfortunately Government scientists have modified marijuana to unbalance its natural balance of natural chemicals.
they have implanted tiny transmitters in the "modified" marijuana that broadcast your thoughts and they are monitoring them right now, so be careful what you think.
Please don't think I'm challenging your statement, but would you be so kind as to provide the source of such ideas/allegations? I find that interesting. They're putting transmitters in marijuana? How do the transmitters work? | |
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Location: USA | Souladarity - 2009-03-03 4:34 AM
Using cannabis regularly and (hopefully) getting into a good, receptive state at the same time, changes our overall responsiveness to shifts in awareness, even when we aren't high. We also become familiar with the pleasant, relaxed feelings it brings on, and we become much more able to find them when we want to, and can even learn to keep ourselves in this happy condition through familiarity with it. S
I know people who marijuana actually makes mean, and they can't think as well as they can when they're not high... Is this because we each have different body chemistries, thus the drug has different affects on different people? Marijuana's affect on them is completely different than what you describe above. | |
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New User
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| Wise and true life !
I always wondering why people become slaves to drugs,life means liberty,when you addicted you become slaves ,then there is no enjoyment left .
I am sure you are enjoying your life in a more awakening way!
True meditation | |
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Marijuana and Meditation