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| What the heck is Christian Yoga ??? tis nothing but an attempt to snatch yoga from its origins.
Yoga is not secularised in America but rather baptised. "Shallom" is used inplace of "Om"  This person Beth Shaw of "Yogafit" has dropped, what she feels is "oming" completely & even changed the Sanskrit names of asanas.  But is this newly minted "Christian Yoga " really Yoga ??? Since this question, i feel, couldn't be answered any better than by Professor Subhash Tiwari of Hindu University of America, I copy-pasted his article on the subject posted on some other website (also to save you folks the trouble of going all the way to that website to read it) 
Here's what the professor has to say :
The simple, immutable fact is that yoga originated from the Vedic or Hindu culture. Its techniques were not adopted by Hinduism, but originated from it. These facts need to be unequivocally stated in light of some of the things being written to the contrary by yoga teachers. The effort to separate yoga from Hinduism must be challenged because it runs counter to the fundamental principles upon which yoga itself is premised, the yamas (restraints) and niyamas (observances). These ethical tenets and religious practices are the first two limbs of the eight-limbed ashtanga yoga system which also includes asana (postures), pranayama (breath control), pratyahara (sense withdrawal), dharana (concentration), dhyana (meditation) and samadhi (contemplation/Self Realization). Efforts to separate yoga from its spiritual center reveal ignorance of the goal of yoga.
Such efforts point to a concerted, long-term plan to deny yoga its origin. This effort to extricate yoga from its Hindu mold and cast it under another name is far from innocent. It is reminiscent of the pattern evident throughout the long history and dynamics of colonizing powers. Firstly, the physical geography of a people was colonized, then their mental arena. Now we are witnessing the next phase, the encroachment on the spiritual territory of Hinduism which began in the last few decades. Some of the agents behind "Christian Yoga " also draw from the same treasure chest which supports the conversion movements of Hindus and other sacred cultures.
In 1989, Pope Benedict, then Cardinal Ratzinger, issued a scathing report against yoga and warned Catholics of "dangers and errors " from "non-Christian forms of meditation." He stated, "The Hindu concept of absorbing of the human self into the divine self is never possible, not even in the highest states of grace." In 2003, the Vatican issued a more conciliatory directive permitting Catholics to engage in the "New Age " in general and yoga specifically, but still warning against its spiritual and meditation practices. "I want to say simply that the New Age presents itself as a false utopia in answer to the profound thirst for happiness in the human heart. New Age is a misleading answer to the oldest hopes of man, " said Cardinal Paul Poupard. This document gives its blessings for Catholics to practice yoga, but not as a spiritual discipline!
Today, however, we are witnessing an initiative toward yoga from ordinary Christians whose positive physical, mental and spiritual heath and well being experienced as a result of "engaging " yoga cannot be denied or ignored. This 5,000-year-old system is perhaps the best known, most accessible and cost effective health and beauty program around. Yoga is also much more, as it was intended by the Vedic seers as an instrument which can lead one to apprehend the Absolute, Ultimate Reality, called the Brahman Reality, or God. If this attempt to co-opt yoga into their own tradition continues, in several decades of incessantly spinning the untruth as truth through re-labelings such as "Christian yoga" who will know that yoga is or was part of Hindu culture ???
The giant tree of yoga whose limbs reach high up into the different atmospheres, and whose branches stretch across the wide river offering its protection to so many, cannot deny that its roots are located in a specific place , Hinduism. Seeking shelter under its vast umbrella does not entitle you to change the tree; instead, learn from its unselfish display of love and generosity.
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| Hi Yuvrajjj,
An interesting article. Thanks for posting it.
I cant speak for others but I have never personally had a challenge combining my Christian beliefs with either my physical, mental or spiritual practise of yoga or my study of Buddhism.
Firstly, I believe it is useful to separate the teaching's of Jesus (Christianity) from the teaching's of the church (churchianity). It must be remembered that Jesus was one of the world's greatest mystics and the people who later codified and organised his teachings were not.
Five hundred years before the birth of Jesus, the Buddha said "Let man overcome anger by love...hatred does not cease by hatred at any time; hatred ceases by love-this is an old rule".
To quote Jesus, "Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you...Do unto others as you would have others do unto you."
The Buddha also said "You must so adjust your heart so you long for the welfare of all beings, including the happiness of your enemies...Among men who hate us, let us dwell free from hatred...With pure thoughts and fullness of love, I will do towards others as I would do for myself".
The similarity of these teachings is incredible, though some may still choose to see Buddhism and Christianity differently. For me, I see the same message which is love. Love is Bakti and Bakti is one of the highest teachings of yoga. I believe that Jesus is a wonderful example of Bakti yoga.
I am sure that in her own way, Beth Shaw believes that by churchifying yoga she is honouring her understanding of living a true Christian lifestyle, and though I find her actions misguided I will continue to love her all the same.
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| yuvrajjj - 2006-10-28 1:36 AM
What the heck is Christian Yoga ??? tis nothing but an attempt to snatch yoga from its origins.
Yoga is not secularised in America but rather baptised. "Shallom" is used inplace of "Om" This person Beth Shaw of "Yogafit" has dropped, what she feels is "oming" completely & even changed the Sanskrit names of asanas. But is this newly minted "Christian Yoga " really Yoga ??? Since this question, i feel, couldn't be answered any better than by Professor Subhash Tiwari of Hindu University of America, I copy-pasted his article on the subject posted on some other website (also to save you folks the trouble of going all the way to that website to read it )
Here's what the professor has to say :
The simple, immutable fact is that yoga originated from the Vedic or Hindu culture. Its techniques were not adopted by Hinduism, but originated from it. These facts need to be unequivocally stated in light of some of the things being written to the contrary by yoga teachers. The effort to separate yoga from Hinduism must be challenged because it runs counter to the fundamental principles upon which yoga itself is premised, the yamas (restraints ) and niyamas (observances ). These ethical tenets and religious practices are the first two limbs of the eight-limbed ashtanga yoga system which also includes asana (postures ), pranayama (breath control ), pratyahara (sense withdrawal ), dharana (concentration ), dhyana (meditation ) and samadhi (contemplation/Self Realization ). Efforts to separate yoga from its spiritual center reveal ignorance of the goal of yoga.
Such efforts point to a concerted, long-term plan to deny yoga its origin. This effort to extricate yoga from its Hindu mold and cast it under another name is far from innocent. It is reminiscent of the pattern evident throughout the long history and dynamics of colonizing powers. Firstly, the physical geography of a people was colonized, then their mental arena. Now we are witnessing the next phase, the encroachment on the spiritual territory of Hinduism which began in the last few decades. Some of the agents behind "Christian Yoga " also draw from the same treasure chest which supports the conversion movements of Hindus and other sacred cultures.
In 1989, Pope Benedict, then Cardinal Ratzinger, issued a scathing report against yoga and warned Catholics of "dangers and errors " from "non-Christian forms of meditation." He stated, "The Hindu concept of absorbing of the human self into the divine self is never possible, not even in the highest states of grace." In 2003, the Vatican issued a more conciliatory directive permitting Catholics to engage in the "New Age " in general and yoga specifically, but still warning against its spiritual and meditation practices. "I want to say simply that the New Age presents itself as a false utopia in answer to the profound thirst for happiness in the human heart. New Age is a misleading answer to the oldest hopes of man, " said Cardinal Paul Poupard. This document gives its blessings for Catholics to practice yoga, but not as a spiritual discipline!
Today, however, we are witnessing an initiative toward yoga from ordinary Christians whose positive physical, mental and spiritual heath and well being experienced as a result of "engaging " yoga cannot be denied or ignored. This 5,000-year-old system is perhaps the best known, most accessible and cost effective health and beauty program around. Yoga is also much more, as it was intended by the Vedic seers as an instrument which can lead one to apprehend the Absolute, Ultimate Reality, called the Brahman Reality, or God. If this attempt to co-opt yoga into their own tradition continues, in several decades of incessantly spinning the untruth as truth through re-labelings such as "Christian yoga" who will know that yoga is or was part of Hindu culture ???
The giant tree of yoga whose limbs reach high up into the different atmospheres, and whose branches stretch across the wide river offering its protection to so many, cannot deny that its roots are located in a specific place , Hinduism. Seeking shelter under its vast umbrella does not entitle you to change the tree; instead, learn from its unselfish display of love and generosity.
Dear Y: Thanks for this article. While there is a lot of truth in the article, there is also a more important problem which Hindus and Indians have created for themselves. And, that is worse than others snatching origin from them. The problem can be stated very simply:
The Hindus and Indians are NOT holding to their origin. I mean they are not doing Yoga Practice. I invite all readers of this post including the writer of the post and the writer of that article to do the following:
- Look around themselves and write down the names of all Hindus whom they are associated with.
- Then write against each name whether they practice Yoga.
- Then do the same with Non Hindus.
- Then compare.
You will be surprised. I am ashamed to state that there are more nonHindus in my classes than Hindus. | |
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| Kulkarni Babu, I'm sorry but it seems ONCE AGAIN your cogitations have taken a wrong road and led you to a wrong conclusion, would you please explain what has the no. of Hindus practising yoga gotta do with Americanisation / Christianisation of Yoga ??? | |
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| I would like to say that neither Hinduism and yoga have anything to do with religion. Hinduism is a way of life rather than a religion, and yoga is also a way of life if you like.
Bringing christianity into it is making it religious. I think this excludes, whereas traditional yoga includes.
Can you post a link to the article?
Edited by DownwardDog 2006-10-29 6:05 AM
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| yuvrajjj - 2006-10-29 12:41 AM
Kulkarni Babu, I'm sorry but it seems ONCE AGAIN your cogitations have taken a wrong road and led you to a wrong conclusion, would you please explain what has the no. of Hindus practising yoga gotta do with Americanisation / Christianisation of Yoga ???
Darling Yuvraj: This is a discussion bulletin board. I am not leading to any conclusion. If you disagree with my conclusion, we need to discuss it. I do not the meaning of the word 'cogitations'. Please let me know wha that means. To answer your next question:
- I already agreed with you that a NonHindu should not do activities which amount cutting relationship of Yoga with it an age old Hindu History or whatever you mean. It is same with writing a partial history in the favor of one society.
- But, what I am saying is: Yoga History will sustain only as much as it is supported by practice. For example, when one says that Old Vedic Scholars had photographic memory and they recited hundreds of books without errors, and then we have no single example to show it. Then, the system or even the statements become weaker, and fall apart. Then, another party who can show memorization can modify that history. And, society goes by what they see, not by what they hear only.
- What I am saying is: The best way to preserve that history, or to support the statements made by the writer is to support it by practice.
Now, let me know what you have to say on what I wrote above.
Peace,
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| And, darling Yuvaraj: You mentioned 'ONCE AGAIN' in capitals. I hope you are refering to a thread on Asthma. Why not you go there and complete our discussion there? Please. Once again, please. | |
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| as one raised Christian, I'd like to believe that I practice Yoga in each breath of my life.
One thing that my studies and practices have led me to 'believe' is that no matter what the roots of any philosophy, span of its' understanding, or depth of it comprehension, NONE have put 'GOD' in our grasp as individuals [my opinion here, just my opinion]
I can not consider any relabeling of Yoga as authentic.
I, also, can no longer accept any dogma. My relationship with God is as an individual, and I've come to believe that everyone else's relationship with God is also that way and your relationship is different than my relationship and that's good.
God is great, God is good, let us thank God for our food, AMEN.
AND AND AND
without Yoga, my relationship with God would be much more shallow than I experience today, as I look back in my younger years.
I thank all those that came before me whom have kept the practice of Yoga alive.
Edited by SCThornley 2006-10-29 9:06 AM
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| Now just coz someone who’s not using something he / she invented doesn’t entitles anyone else, after finding a good use for it , start calling it his / her own, such actions can never be justified. History of Yoga is well talked about everywhere in the world and it would always be associated with India as the only earliest record of yoga is the stone seals that were excavated from the Indus valley so modification of history here is not possible. But what western historians (who could never concede that any civilization is superior to theirs) could least do is to try to disassociate Hinduism from yoga by concluding that stone age Shaman’s first began this strange practice or that yoga originated from the place what we NOW call India , as if the present day Hindus have as much to do with yoga as the Iraqis have anything to do with Sumerians. India’s contribution to mathematics & astrology is long forgotten and yoga will meet the same fate. Americans are doing exactly what the Arabian invaders did then (of course without invading). There is no such things as Arabian Mathematics, any major book on mathematics written by Arabians is nothing but translation of Indian books on maths written in Sanskrit, more information on this could be found on http://xanatos.blog-city.com/indias_contribution_to_modern_civilisation_part_2.htm Before pointing out that the no. of Hindus practicing yoga is lesser than that of Non-Hindus one should know WHY yoga is not popular amongst them.
I would also like to share what should not be considered as my opinion but facts that qigong is based on yoga , all the major martial arts practiced today evolved from the ancient Indian martial art of “Kalaripayattu”. Today hardly anyone would believe that acupressure is NOT an ancient Chinese technique but an Ayurvedic remedy developed in India & that the first man on Everest was Tenzing Norgay, not Sir Edmond Hillary. | |
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| Darling Yuvrajj: 1. You are NOT stating anything new. What you have stated has been stated by others. And, as I said your statements have facts in it. But, that is NOT sufficient. 2. What I said is: Hindus should practice Yoga more to support their originality. Otherwise, the situation you described will be worst. Now, there is NO excuse for not practicing Yoga. Because, it does not need any particular gadgets. The only thing it needs is will. And, if that is absent. And, if one wants to continue to only live off the ancestoral contribution, it amounts to stating that, for example:
- My 100th forefather was a hardworking man, who worked hard and he was able to feed 5000 persons. And, I am his 100th progeny. I am very proud of it. But, I am actually a homeless person. But, the last part you should forget. Just give me credit for the my forefathers.
How does that sound?
Peace
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| yuvrajjj - 2006-10-30 9:24 AM
Before pointing out that the no. of Hindus practicing yoga is lesser than that of Non-Hindus one should know WHY yoga is not popular amongst them.
So why do you believe this is, yuvrajjj? | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | yuvrajjj - 2006-10-30 1:24 AM
I would also like to share what should not be considered as my opinion but facts that qigong is based on yoga , all the major martial arts practiced today evolved from the ancient Indian martial art of “Kalaripayattu”. Today hardly anyone would believe that acupressure is NOT an ancient Chinese technique but an Ayurvedic remedy developed in India & that the first man on Everest was Tenzing Norgay, not Sir Edmond Hillary.
Okay Mr. Prince Yuvrajjj,
Actually, Satyam says sooo many Nepalis sherpas climbed Sagarmatha (a.k.a Mt. Everest), long before, thousands of years before Tenzin Sherpa and Mr. Edmond Hillary,  Approximately 18 years ago, an older Nepalis woman, Pasang Lanhu Sherpa, climbed for $200,000 Rupees to feed her family. She reached the top and came back down and died. She didn't carry all the "usual" equipment that most modern people do, she did it naturally. Nepalis people worship this woman because they think she is like Durga, very brave.
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| the problem with americanization of yoga is the process of trying to rip the spiritual aspect out of the physical discipline. Instead of the perspective that yoga is a spiritual practice with ap hysical component, the americanization has flipped this reality as if it's a physical practice with an optional spiritual component. Simply, this is not true. So, yes, this is problematic.
aside from this, i have no issue with the application of yoga to christianity or any other religion. while yoga has it's roots in the vedic culture, it is a discipline that can be extracted out of context and utilized in other contexts. Just as prayer, ritual, fasting, scriptural study, meditation, etc are not religion-specific, neither is yoga.
but yoga must be approached as a spiritual discipline in order to be yoga. Regardless of which religion one practices yoga within, without practicing it as a spiritual discipline, one is only practicing stretching or gymnastics. | |
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| zoebird - 2006-10-30 1:26 PM
but yoga must be approached as a spiritual discipline in order to be yoga. Regardless of which religion one practices yoga within, without practicing it as a spiritual discipline, one is only practicing stretching or gymnastics.
pistachio? | |
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| Please, please, please explain this pistachio thing to me!
It's driving me crazy | |
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| i have a preference for almonds, but my husband likes pistachios. | |
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| jonnie - 2006-10-30 1:44 PM
Please, please, please explain this pistachio thing to me!
It's driving me crazy
I like 'em | |
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Extreme Veteran
Posts: 418
Location: New York | Two things:
1. Beth Shaw of YogaFit has not "churchified" yoga. There is no Christian component to YogaFit. I think whoever posted that has her confused with someone else.
2. Neither has she changed the Sanskrit names of asanas. In YogaFit's first three levels of training, the Sanskrit names are not taught but they haven't been changed. | |
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| interestingly enough, in other 'brands' of yoga in the west, the sanskrit names have been left behind and english names given based on what the teacher 'feels' the pose looks like to a westerner. in kali rae tri-yoga, pidgeon pose (adho muka eka pada rajakapotasana) is called 'swan pose' because it 'looks like a swan. i agree, it does look like a swan, but the alignment is nothing like hamsasana which is swan pose. so, it does get confusing.
but of course, there are often multiple sanskrit names, and thus multiple translations, for the same pose. vashtithasana is also parsvo phalakanasana and ardha phalakanasana or side plank/half plank pose. all three sanskrit names are 'correct' depending upon lineage, and so also are 'all three' names of the pose, including vashtitha's pose being the third name.
i think that beth shaw of yoga fit in the past tried to distance the spiritual from the physical a great deal--it was in her earlier writings, but when she sought yoga alliance registry, she had to teach the philosophy, etc, and so that brought the spiritual component back in. it's greatly downplayed. i think if she had her way, she would keep it a physical practice without a spiritual component.
aside from this, there are people who want to do "christian yoga" and there is a woman who does htis though i can't remember her name and we had a thread about her in this very subforum for a while. maybe a couple of years ago now. Anyway, she 'took issue with' the cultural and religious origin, and then came up with something 'new' that had some yoga poses but took a christian perspective of everything. I found it to be problematic for a number of reasons, but not inherently. As i said/mentioned before, the spiritual discpline of yoga could be practiced within any religious context.
neel has an interesting point as well. more westerners do take yoga than indian/nepalis/etc, in this area. in fact, many have never studied yoga because the last generation wanted to be 'modern' and so they abandoned many practices. Their children are interested in yoga by hit-and-miss: some are, some aren't. Some of them are interested in yoga too, reading of the benefits while they age. this is why the local temple has invited me to teach yoga there. they feel that it's important to learn it, so they sought a teacher--even though she's not indian/nepalis/etc or of a certain age or hindu/jain/etc. | |
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| JackieCat - 2006-10-31 12:31 AM
Two things:
1. Beth Shaw of YogaFit has not "churchified" yoga. There is no Christian component to YogaFit. I think whoever posted that has her confused with someone else.
Hi Jackiecat,
Sorry, my 'churchified' comment was in response to the OP's orginal statements and I just assumed that they were accurate.
jonathon | |
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| Kulkarni Babu, India was under Muslim rule followed by the British for an unbroken one thousand years. During this period Hindu population was decimated. Hindu religious books were burned down , the universities of Taxsila & Nalanda & temples across the country were destroyed, now do you think that Hindus enjoyed the liberty of worshipping their Gods and practicing yoga ??? and eventually when India gained independence she was left with nothing but poverty. However the educated people (who wants to be modern) doesn’t form the majority of the population as India’s literacy rate is one of the lowest in the world. So even if they followed Hollywood celebrities (as Indian definition for modernism is “whatever Americans are doing”) and started practising yoga they would still be in the minority. The major EXCUSES why yoga is not practiced in India by the masses are, the discontinuation of the one thousand years is enough for anyone to forget the importance of yoga in their daily lives and poverty. An average Indian has to work more to earn more & there’s no time left to be wasted on yoga.
And Kulkarni Babu if these things are discussed before , than you could take them as a timely reminder.
Dear Cyndi jee , those ill-blessed sherpas and poor Tenzing Norgay are not westerners , so only Sir. Edmund Hillary has the right to be known as the first man on Everest.
And Dear Jackiecat, here’s an excerpt from the article on “About Yogafit” found on Beth Shaw’s Yogafit Official website , the link is http://www.yogafit.com/about.shtml
Bringing Yoga to the Fitness Industry – A Vision.
The YogaFit® Story -
YogaFit (“Yoga for the Fitness Industry”™), was developed in 1994 by Beth Shaw. After practicing yoga since 1989 and taking several “Yoga Certifications” Beth began teaching at fitness clubs in Los Angeles. She soon discovered that while traditional certifications taught a lot about the history and philosophy of Yoga, they did not address the nuts and bolts issue of teaching yoga in a health club. Knowing the many challenges of teaching yoga in a health club; bright lights, cold rooms, bodies of all types and fitness/ flexibility levels, she created her own style of yoga that combined fitness moves such as push ups, sit ups and squats with traditional yoga postures linked together in a flowing fitness format. To make the practice “user-friendly” she eliminated the Sanskrit names of the postures and avoided the oming and chanting sometimes associated with traditional yoga practices. YogaFit was born. Beth’s classes were packed, students wanted more !
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| light a candle
don't
curse the darkness | |
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| Dear Yuvrajjj,
"Poor" Tenzing Norgay is highly regarded and respected in the west, especially in mountaineering circles. Neither himself or Edmund Hillary has ever (at least publicly) admitted which one of them reached the summit of Everest first. | |
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| yuvrajjj - 2006-10-31 12:10 PM
Kulkarni Babu, India was under Muslim rule followed by the British for an unbroken one thousand years. During this period Hindu population was decimated. Hindu religious books were burned down , the universities of Taxsila & Nalanda & temples across the country were destroyed, now do you think that Hindus enjoyed the liberty of worshipping their Gods and practicing yoga ??? and eventually when India gained independence she was left with nothing but poverty. However the educated people (who wants to be modern) doesn’t form the majority of the population as India’s literacy rate is one of the lowest in the world. So even if they followed Hollywood celebrities (as Indian definition for modernism is “whatever Americans are doing”) and started practising yoga they would still be in the minority. The major EXCUSES why yoga is not practiced in India by the masses are, the discontinuation of the one thousand years is enough for anyone to forget the importance of yoga in their daily lives and poverty. An average Indian has to work more to earn more & there’s no time left to be wasted on yoga.
And Kulkarni Babu if these things are discussed before , than you could take them as a timely reminder.
Dear Cyndi jee , those ill-blessed sherpas and poor Tenzing Norgay are not westerners , so only Sir. Edmund Hillary has the right to be known as the first man on Everest.
And Dear Jackiecat, here’s an excerpt from the article on “About Yogafit” found on Beth Shaw’s Yogafit Official website , the link is http://www.yogafit.com/about.shtml
Bringing Yoga to the Fitness Industry – A Vision.
The YogaFit® Story -
YogaFit (“Yoga for the Fitness Industry”™), was developed in 1994 by Beth Shaw. After practicing yoga since 1989 and taking several “Yoga Certifications” Beth began teaching at fitness clubs in Los Angeles. She soon discovered that while traditional certifications taught a lot about the history and philosophy of Yoga, they did not address the nuts and bolts issue of teaching yoga in a health club. Knowing the many challenges of teaching yoga in a health club; bright lights, cold rooms, bodies of all types and fitness/ flexibility levels, she created her own style of yoga that combined fitness moves such as push ups, sit ups and squats with traditional yoga postures linked together in a flowing fitness format. To make the practice “user-friendly” she eliminated the Sanskrit names of the postures and avoided the oming and chanting sometimes associated with traditional yoga practices. YogaFit was born. Beth’s classes were packed, students wanted more !
Are Yuvarajsahib: I am not stating that muslim and british governments have nothing to do with making India poor or to reduce Yoga practice. What I am saying now is:
a) They can be proud of their Indian Heritage.
b) But, to support that pride they should also practice sufficiently. I do not believe from my travels to and knowledge of Indians that they do not have enough time and money to practice Yoga, today. And, it is an interesting fact that Indian temple could not find Indian teacher for teaching Yoga in the temple. | |
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| kulkarnn - 2006-10-31 2:12 PM
a) They can be proud of their Indian Heritage.
AH! now I can see! | |
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| That will help you find those pistachios easier | |
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| jonnie - 2006-10-31 2:41 PM
That will help you find those pistachios easier
Yes, MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM, pistachios.....Yummy.  | |
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| Very interesting post by Professor Subhash Tiwari (article referenced).
A very good read and well thought out, whether you agree or not.
It seems though he (or she) is in direct conflict witht he assertions of Sri Aurobondo and The Mother relative to yoga and religion. There's a very small book which one can read in a week (easily, in a day if focused) which is called The Difference between Yoga and Religion.
The Mother is one hip yoga chick. | |
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Location: London, England | Hi Steve,
When you get to a pistachio which isn't opened a bit, do you put it back in the packet and save a bunch of them till last, or do you go ahead and crack it open with your teeth? I think you can tell a lot about a person by which method they use of hoovering up the bag
Take care
Nick | |
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| Nick - 2006-11-02 2:37 AM
Hi Steve,
When you get to a pistachio which isn't opened a bit, do you put it back in the packet and save a bunch of them till last, or do you go ahead and crack it open with your teeth? I think you can tell a lot about a person by which method they use of hoovering up the bag
Take care
Nick
I keep a pair of diagonal wire cutters near by, they seem to be the best tool for opening difficult pistachios. | |
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Location: London, England | Hi Steve,
That's not a bad idea-it's amazing how many life-changing tips you can get from the internet-my life was so empty before I found out about the wire cutters You nut.
Nick
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| Sanskrit is taught at Yoga Fit level 4. | |
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| yuvrajjj - But what western historians (who could never concede that any civilization is superior to theirs)
Chinese can't concede this either- same with Japanese...and just try to tell a Vietnamese that any civilizaton is superior to theirs... you'll get an old kung fu round house kick in the chest, just for starters...
I would also like to share what should not be considered as my opinionbut facts that qigong is based on yoga , all the major martial artspracticed today evolved from the ancient Indian martial art of“Kalaripayattu”. Today hardly anyone would believe that acupressure isNOT an ancient Chinese technique but an Ayurvedic remedy developed inIndia & that the first man on Everest was Tenzing Norgay, not SirEdmond Hillary.
Wow, news to me... but I have a Vietnamese husband. And even he has to give it up to the Chinese for the kung fu. Also, this might make you mad, but the martial arts developed in India are regarded by him as... not as effective as Chinese martial arts. This is really bad, but I think he might view that style as rather effeminate. As for Everest, I am of the mind that it was ascended way before Tenzing or Edmond, a Nepali whose name was not recorded.
I am just trying to make a little trouble, because after all you did bring up martial arts, which we ALL know originated from kung fu- Bruce Lee was Chinese, wasn't he? Proof enough!
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| Ha, just like westerners climbing Everest today, the Sherpa carry all the supplies up, then go down the mountain, coax the westerner up the mountain, and then drag them back down the mountain after they spend every bit of their energy focusing on getting up the mountain. And then the westerner goes back with all the pictures, and claims to have conquered the mountain. | |
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| Man, I'm a total bummer today. I posted this, and then I was getting down on myself, as if I ever did anything like climb blah blah blah, and who do I think I am blah blah blah. So enough of my petty guilt trip, all I wanted to say was those Sherpas are heros, and I have a few too many voices in my head this morning.
Edited by bstqltmkr 2007-01-06 9:22 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hi Ellen,
About Everest being climbed by first by someone other than Hillary and Tenzin....I mentioned this before on another thread. The Sherpas have been climbing Everest for thousands of years. Actually though, Tibetan Lamas say that Everest is not a holy mountain, it is a "worldly" mountain and should not be climbed. Mt. Everest to the Nepalis is Sagarmatha - the Goddess Mother. Mt. Kailash is where Shiva resides. The Tibetans and Hindu's definitely agree that this is the Holy Mountain. It is said that everyone should visit this mountain at least once before you die.
Anyway, my husband is Nepalis.
P.S. Shelley, about the Sherpas. You would not believe how many Sherpa get killed on those Everest expositions. I think it is so wrong to use these guys to guide these stupid Westerner's up that mountain. Those Sherpas don't get paid enough for what they do. Once the Westerner's get them up the mountain, they put lives in danger because they don't listen to their guidance and become very arrogant and stupid. Okay, my first rant for this year,
Edited by Cyndi 2007-01-06 9:59 AM
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Location: Upstate NY | bstqltmkr - 2007-01-06 9:21 AM
Man, I'm a total bummer today. I posted this, and then I was getting down on myself, as if I ever did anything like climb blah blah blah, and who do I think I am blah blah blah. So enough of my petty guilt trip, all I wanted to say was those Sherpas are heros, and I have a few too many voices in my head this morning.
I have caught the Dicsovery series "Everest" on TV a couple weekends in a row and what an amazing show. Those Sherpas are amazing...... the build all of the bridges and secure all of the harnesses each year for all of the "climbers" that attempt the summit each year.
What I found something is that there are over 200 bodies up there in the snow of those that could not do it and perished to the elements and that is where they'll stay until the end of time, in the worlds biggest meat locker. No helicopter can go high enough and the terrian is much to dangerous and the oxygen is much too thin to attempt to physically haul someone down the mountain.
The expedition leader was quoted at the end of the series wondering as to why so many people come to Everest to die each year.
Just my two cents on Everest.....
Om Shanti,
Ravi
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| i watched a show on PBS about the first team of women to climb--all sherpas--and why they climbed, and how those who made it became national heros for all women (it wsa a 'women's lib' sort of thing for them). it was a really amazing show that also showed a lot about the Sherpa way of life, their beliefs and practices (which are buddhist, but also their own "animistic" tradition--really beautiful stuff). It was followed by a documentary about mongolian horse herders. really amazing documentaries.  i'll see if i can find the titles.
it's inspiring for more than just climbing mountains (in fact, that's not the focus at all). | |
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| I thought the Discovery show was frustating, because I wanted to know more about the Sherpa side of the story. Also, about all those voices this morning, I got them to all sing the same mantra for a while, and the misbehaving ones fell asleep. | |
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| Dear Yurajjj,
I am sorry for trying to tease you last night. I just got a little devil inside me and did not resist. That should teach me not to post at 4 am after watching, "Poker After Dark" on tv!
My simplistic world view, when people start talking about who discovered what and what belongs to whom, is that we are all merging into one anyway, culture, beliefs, economic systems, racial categories. Humans like to mingle with each other, for better and worse, so why fight it. Everything is in the process of being influenced by everything else. Somethings lost, somethings gained, the way of the world.
What I did not give proper regard to is the oppression hindus have endured. I appologize.
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| Hi Cyndi! Thank you for teaching me about the mountains.
Cyndi - 2007-01-06 6:54 AM
Anyway, my husband is Nepalis.
I love having a husband from another land
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | kulkarnn - 2006-10-28 9:45 PM Dear Y: Thanks for this article. While there is a lot of truth in the article, there is also a more important problem which Hindus and Indians have created for themselves. And, that is worse than others snatching origin from them. The problem can be stated very simply: The Hindus and Indians are NOT holding to their origin. I mean they are not doing Yoga Practice. I invite all readers of this post including the writer of the post and the writer of that article to do the following: - Look around themselves and write down the names of all Hindus whom they are associated with. - Then write against each name whether they practice Yoga. - Then do the same with Non Hindus. - Then compare. You will be surprised. I am ashamed to state that there are more nonHindus in my classes than Hindus. Within the US, which is they only context I can reference with any depth of personal experience, it's hard for me to answer the question of how many Hindus practice yoga. I do not see many Indians in yoga classes. Further, it's not always easy for me to tell which Indians are Hindu and which are Christian or Muslim unless there's some conspicuous symbol -- a hijab, names like Muhammad or Ganesh, certain kinds of tilak, or a cross worn around the neck. There is a very large Indian immigrant community in my area, but it has its own institutions and activities. These folks don't tend to move outside their own community, and the community is not terribly welcoming to non-Indians. I know that the local Satsang center has yoga classes, but I have no idea how many people are participating. Finally, I know a number of westerners in my yoga classes who follow Hindu practices and spiritual beliefs in ways that make them Hindu in everything other than family origin. You can find a number essays on the question of "Who is a Hindu?" Vivekananda, for example, has one that is well known. Most commentators (at least, most that I have read) come to the conclusion that a Hindu is defined by beliefs rather than exclusively by having been born to a Hindu family. From this, I think that we can take the western versus Indian issue out of the discussion of so-called "christian yoga". It is clear that the essential beliefs of Christianity are not compatible with the essential beliefs of Hinduism, owing to things like the unique and authoritian nature of the Christian deity, karma/reincarnation, and the question of Biblical versus Vedic scriptural authority (this in itself is a long discussion, and we have another thread on it in this forum). Yoga in its more general sense (i.e., not just doing asanas) is an essential element in Hindu belief, but it's only a part of Hindu belief. Therefore, one who practices yoga is not necessarily a Hindu. The goal of yoga, which is to move toward the Divine, is in its simplest form compatible with Christianity. However, no Christian would agree that salvation could be achieved through Karma yoga alone, nor through Raja yoga, nor through Jnana yoga... Bhakti yoga (the yoga of devotion) would come closest to Christian thinking, I think, provided that the practice included acceptance of Jesus Christ as one's personal savior and the rejection of all other gods. To make any sense of the question of whether one can have a "christian yoga", we really need to start with a definition of yoga. That definition could then be balanced against christian tenets. It could also be balanced against the forms of yoga described in ancient Indian scriptures, such as the Bhagavad Gita or the Yoga Sutra of Patanjali. We would be seeking to determine whether this definition of yoga were consistent with both. My sense is that people on both sides of the question are using fuzzy definitions of both yoga and the two belief systems; in fact, I'm not certain that any of the three can be defined with sufficient precision to answer the question. What do y'all think? ... bg | |
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Location: London, England | Hi Bay Guy,
Very eloquently put, if I may say so. I think what we are seeing is an evolution in progress-as philosophies, cultures, and religions are exposed to each other more freely, and people begin to explore the boundaries and limitations of the religion they were born with. I hope that in this way, perhaps, as each individual responds to their chosen spiritual path, we actually see the breakdown of religion as such-no christians, no hindus, no muslims-just individual spirits, each one of which breaks the mold. That's what I hope, anyway
Nick | |
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Location: Upstate NY | Om namah Sivaya,
Funny thing happened to me several years ago that I just thought of while reading the last couple of replies.
At the time my employment required 100% travel and of this was many-many nights in the hotel, of which every Monday I would re-arrange the furniture in order to do my Asanas after a hard days work.....
Upon re-arranging the furniture I would always call the front desk just to let them know that I had moved a couple pieces of furniture and to please let housekeeping know that I would move things back at the end of the week when i would check out.
Well, one day I called the front desk and a rather polite Indian gentleman picked up the phone...I went through the my normal....... yada yada... furniture moved...yada yada when he asked why in the world was I moving furniture around.......... thinking I would get a little bit of sympathy I told the man that I was moving everything around in order to do some Asanas and meditation for my Yoga practice...... 
Sympathy or understanding was the last thing I got........."why in the world are you doing Yoga" he shouted "Yoga is no good....if you want to relax, come down here to the front desk and we will read some scriptures out of my bible" he exclaimed. He then went on for several ....long......minutes ( felt like an hour) on how Christianity is where it is at and how Yoga is a childish fools game...........
I was blown away...
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | Evangelism can be so tiresome.... ... bg | |
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| Ravi - 2007-01-08 6:29 PM
Sympathy or understanding was the last thing I got........."why in the world are you doing Yoga" he shouted "Yoga is no good....if you want to relax, come down here to the front desk and we will read some scriptures out of my bible" he exclaimed. He then went on for several ....long......minutes ( felt like an hour) on how Christianity is where it is at and how Yoga is a childish fools game...........
I was blown away...
Had a similar experience with a couple of nice chinese girls I was talking to at one point.... | |
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey Ravi,
Have you ever heard of Ravi Zacharias?? You should do a google search, it will help you understand your experience...trust me. | |
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Location: Upstate NY | Yeah....I did a google search and I think that I would have been on the phone a bit longer with Mr. Zacharias if he knew I was moving furniture around for Yoga............
I am going to do some more searching about him becasue I am pretty interested to hear his views about his native religion and the reason that his family converted.
Thanks Cyndi! | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | If you want...I have a copy of his book that I would be happy to loan you. Send me your snail address, that way you won't have to spend any money. It was given to me by my Father's Baptist preacher several years ago when he found I married a Hindu from Nepal, It's called "Jesus among other Gods". | |
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Location: Upstate NY | Cyndi,
I PM'd you with my addy and an offer to take a look at Bliss Divine by Swami Sivananda as I have just finished reading it. | |
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| ...and arrogant... | |
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Expert Yogi
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Location: A Blue State | ... there is a certain presumptive quality to the evangelist, no? | |
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| Bay Guy - 2007-01-09 10:03 PM
... there is a certain presumptive quality to the evangelist, no?
whether it's a southern baptist, or any non-christian religiousity bent, it's the same.
Well, if soup was all one flavor life would be boring, right?
J.A.L.A.I.D.A.M.-[just as long as it doesn't affect me] OR jalaidam.
Jalaidam is modern philosophical system that has come out of modern practical life in the face of the ongoing and never ending debate of competing belief systems that basically accepts the realization that nothing will ever change the way someone believes and so, believe whatever you want, just as long as it doesn't affect me. This is really a retread philosophy of the early USA motto of "Don't tread on me".
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| SCThornley - 2007-01-10 4:35 AM
J.A.L.A.I.D.A.M.-[just as long as it doesn't affect me] OR jalaidam.
Jalaidam is modern philosophical system that has come out of modern practical life in the face of the ongoing and never ending debate of competing belief systems that basically accepts the realization that nothing will ever change the way someone believes and so, believe whatever you want, just as long as it doesn't affect me. This is really a retread philosophy of the early USA motto of "Don't tread on me".
Ah, finally a philosophy I can get behind! | |
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| Chinese can't concede this either- same with Japanese...and just try to tell a Vietnamese that any civilizaton is superior to theirs... you'll get an old kung fu round house kick in the chest, just for starters...
how would an "old kung fu round house kick in the chest" change facts ??? all you need to do is an exhaustive research on the contributions made by anceint India to science and technology.
but I have a Vietnamese husband. And even he has to give it up to the Chinese for the kung fu. Also, this might make you mad, but the martial arts developed in India are regarded by him as... not as effective as Chinese martial arts
lol... perhaps your Vietnamese hubby would like to meet an "Ankathari" expert friend of mine equipped with an "Urumi" to see how effective Indian martial art is.
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| ellen - 2007-01-06 2:28 PM
My simplistic world view, when people start talking about who discovered what and what belongs to whom, is that we are all merging into one anyway, culture, beliefs, economic systems, racial categories.
Dear ellen,let me state some facts pertaining to Hinduism, ok you won't like it but keep an open mind & I hope the moderators won't take it personally, that some OBSERVANT brahmins & vaishnavs consider non-hindus & non-vegetarians as dalits (untouchables) so don't expect everyone to agree with you. I have a devil inside me as well. | |
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| yuvrajjj - 2007-01-13 11:34 AM
Dear ellen,let me state some facts pertaining to Hinduism, ok you won't like it but keep an open mind & I hope the moderators won't take it personally, that some OBSERVANT brahmins & vaishnavs consider non-hindus & non-vegetarians as dalits (untouchables ) so don't expect everyone to agree with you. I have a devil inside me as well.
Dear Nick, that's ok, I don't mind : ), I just like being called "dear" | |
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Posts: 2479
Location: A Blue State | yuvrajjj - 2007-01-13 2:34 PM ellen - 2007-01-06 2:28 PM My simplistic world view, when people start talking about who discovered what and what belongs to whom, is that we are all merging into one anyway, culture, beliefs, economic systems, racial categories. Dear ellen,let me state some facts pertaining to Hinduism, ok you won't like it but keep an open mind & I hope the moderators won't take it personally, that some OBSERVANT brahmins & vaishnavs consider non-hindus & non-vegetarians as dalits (untouchables ) so don't expect everyone to agree with you. I have a devil inside me as well. : ) It's interesting to me that this is the case. Some temples that I visited in India were completely open to me & let me do puja. Others were not -- at one, a 13 year brahmin boy escorted me right out the door, explaining that the temple was open only to Indians (and then correcting himself to say Hindus). No point to argue with him. He then turned around asked me to give him some money on the basis that he was a brahmin boy -- go figure. At another large temple, one of guides, an older man, after watching me for a while, interceded with the priests on my behalf. It's not really a point that I would care to push too much -- I'm not Indian, nor from a Hindu family, nor even terribly knowledgable on the rules and forms. If other folks are hung up about purity and consecration, I see that as their problem rather my own shortcoming. I suppose that my protestant upbringing left me with the view that Man can interact with god without first obtaining somebody else's approval. ... bg
Edited by Bay Guy 2007-01-14 4:01 PM
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| ellen - 2007-01-13 12:09 PM
Dear Nick, that's ok, I don't mind : ), I just like being called "dear"
Whoops, I meant yuvrajjj : ) | |
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| Hi yuvrajjj,
My husband just returned from 2 1/2 weeks in Vietnam, and guess what? He told me marial arts DID ORIGINATE in India! No problem admitting it either, said it originated where Buddha came from, then they came to China and built a Shaolin temple.
Oh dear, I can see a trail of misconceptions lining my path- well, I did say the devil made me do it : )
Ellen | |
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| zoebird - 2006-10-30 1:26 PM
the problem with americanization of yoga is the process of trying to rip the spiritual aspect out of the physical discipline. Instead of the perspective that yoga is a spiritual practice with ap hysical component, the americanization has flipped this reality as if it's a physical practice with an optional spiritual component. Simply, this is not true. So, yes, this is problematic.
aside from this, i have no issue with the application of yoga to christianity or any other religion. while yoga has it's roots in the vedic culture, it is a discipline that can be extracted out of context and utilized in other contexts. Just as prayer, ritual, fasting, scriptural study, meditation, etc are not religion-specific, neither is yoga.
but yoga must be approached as a spiritual discipline in order to be yoga. Regardless of which religion one practices yoga within, without practicing it as a spiritual discipline, one is only practicing stretching or gymnastics.
I am coming into this argument well after it started, but I will have to say well said. I have been reading many articles about yoga and being Christian and have read everything from yoga is from Satan to yoga is not a religion but a way of life to yoga is for Hindus only, etc. I long ago decided rather than be close minded and pick a religion and practice only that belief, I would look and see what there was out there. I have been looking into how religions are related rather than their differences. Came across an article that said there are many paths to God and that peace and love were needed. I liked that thought and decided anything that can help me be more peaceful and loving I will use. Now I am not an expert on yoga but the gist of it is (from what I gather) is to make a better you, become enlightened, and all sorts of goodies
I got this from yogajournal
Niyama
Niyama, the second limb, has to do with self-discipline and spiritual observances. Regularly attending temple or church services, saying grace before meals, developing your own personal meditation practices, or making a habit of taking contemplative walks alone are all examples of niyamas in practice.
The five niyamas are:
Saucha: cleanliness
Samtosa: contentment
Tapas: heat; spiritual austerities
Svadhyaya: study of the sacred scriptures and of one's self
Isvara pranidhana: surrender to God
It goes over the limbs and branches of yoga. The article doesn't mention a particular religion. I guess it could be called Americanized. But I like it, it leaves me room to be Christian. It actually makes me want to be closer to my faith and study the Bible more, etc. I originally was going to start practicing yoga for relaxation and fitness. I have always used meditation as a form of relaxation when I used it, but never with a goal. Reading this article made me look at all the limbs and branches of yoga and see how they can apply to my life no matter what religion I am. As you stated that prayer, fasting etc are not religion specific, I don't see why yoga has to be. I think if yoga was applied to more religions it'd be a closer step to world peace As for practicing yoga without practicing a spiritual discipline is stretching, that is true. I now realize that me wanting to use it as relaxation and fitness is only a step up from stretching. I want to learn more about yoga and incorporating it into my life. Just that one article made me want to be more spiritual.
On an end note, from what I have read on yoga (I will again point out I am not an expert) but it didn't seem in any of the teachings that any of the original forms of yoga required religious intolerance. As I said I think adding yoga into our lives might help up see some more similarities and stop focusing on differences. | |
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Member
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| Yoga is a word that describes the religious and spiritual practices within Hinduism. A modern "yoga class" is something different. It's often a collection of techniques like postures, movements, breathing exercises and meditation to enhanche physical and mental wellbeing. Christians are welcome to practice yoga or yoga techniques, but hopefully with respect for the religious and cultural background where yoga comes from. The custom in the east is to honour the lineage. This is also prevelant in the martial arts. Yoga is an integral part of Hinduism. That needs to be honored. We shouldn't have to cover it up and call it different names.
Edited by BhujagaShaya 2010-04-12 10:32 AM
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Member
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| It goes over the limbs and branches of yoga. The article doesn't mention a particular religion. I guess it could be called Americanized. But I like it, it leaves me room to be Christian.
It's great that you as a Christian can get so much value out of yoga principles. I have no objection to that people of other faiths are inspired by the yoga sutra of patanjali. But I am against the policy of actively avoiding the word Hindu which according to yogajournal carries too much bagage. If I would read a story from the bible and get inspired to live my life a certain way, that wouldn't mean I became a Christian, but I would have no problem whatsoever acknowledging the Christian source of the story. Unfortunately, a lot of Americans, including the editors of yogajournal, have a big problem using the word Hindu. This has led to some peculiar choice of words in yogajournal's articles, like calling the Bhagavad Gita a Tantric work.
Edited by BhujagaShaya 2010-04-12 11:27 AM
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