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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | It's people like John Mackey and this organization that will make a difference!!
http://money.cnn.com/2006/06/16/news/companies/whole_foods/index.htm?cnn=yes
Whole Foods halts sales of live lobsters
Supermarket chain reaches decision after learning that animals were placed in storage facilities for months at a time; will also stop selling soft-shelled crab.
June 16, 2006: 7:21 AM EDT
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Organic supermarket chain Whole Foods announced Friday it will stop selling live lobsters effectively immediately, citing the inhumane treatment of the animals.
"We are not yet sufficiently satisfied that the process of selling live lobsters is in line with our commitment to humane treatment and quality of life for animals," Margaret Wittenberg, vice president of quality standards for Whole Foods Market, said in a prepared statement.
The company reached the decision to stop the sale of the crustacean after conducting a seven-month review into its lobster procurement process, learning that in many instances the animals were held in storage facilities for several months at a time.
Whole Foods (Charts) also announced that it would also halt the sale of live soft-shelled crab.
The company, however, will continue to sell both raw and cooked frozen lobster products from companies that meet handling and processing standards developed by Whole Foods.
Whole Foods CEO John Mackey said the company would consider resuming the sale of lobsters if improvements are made in the treatment of the animals.
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| i grew up crabbing the Chesapeake Bay every summer,
checking my pots twice a day and fishing in between
that's what i ate all summer and Crab Cakes into the winter.
i don't eat that stuff anymore, but if folks want to eat it, i'd advise them to go catch it themselves, because that is the only way to verify that it is fresh, and it turns bad quickly
i don't know about lobster, but considering that it is a crustacean like crabs they probably eat the same stuff, which is everything that dies and falls to the bottom of the ocean, they are bottom feeders.
Even though the meat is white, it is not clean, it is not kosher.
These animals are the garbage processors of the sea floor.
A fabulous book on crabs is "Beautiful Swimmers".
but eating these vile bottom feeders is simply unclean.....even though that used to be a huge proportion of my diet.....i speak from experience.....and now that i have the choice, i'll never ever eat those filthy bottom feeders again!
Crabs are disgusting in their living and life process, i know all about it, more than i'd ever want to, they stink, they're nasty.
Lobsters are simply a larger form of the same thing, a bottom feeder.
No matter how much butter you use it's still nasty.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | To each his own.
Lobster and crab are not dirty fish, it is the polluted waters from human beings that screws with the ocean environment.
Grouper is one of my favorites...it is a bottom feeder too, so is Catfish!! Saying they are vile and such is BS. This is your perception because of your screwed up thinking about what is clean and what is not.
Just remember this, "Fish can't live in too clean of water". Bottom feeding fish are designed to handle such things on the bottom of the ocean, they are like filters...that does not make them unclean. Eating these types of fish have great medicinal value....contrary to what you believe. Besides, there are still some really good fishing holes left in the world for good eating!!
Edited by Cyndi 2006-06-16 10:27 AM
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| i concur to each his/her own.
but bottom feeders eat nasty things, the sort of things that sink to the bottom of any system, and primarily those things are dead.
Eating bottom feeders to the point of impacting the population will lead to a more unclean environment, this can be seen in the Chesapeake.
I've had grouper, and it was good served in Charleston, SC.
But i no longer can, with clean concious, eat fish or any food from the aquatic environment.
Pollution is a problem, a Global Problem, there is no clean spot left.
The environmental fate of DDT is the perfected study on this subject, so please do not take my word for it, learn about it on your own, there is a lot of new information available, and a lot has happened since it's use in the United States was outlawed in the 1970s
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDT
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/tfacts35.html
but even these sources don't have the total story straight, and there are a lot of other chemicals out there, so be vigilant
Even though we don't use it anymore, it's not gone, and since that time new chemicals have come into vogue usage.
I've done enough analysis in the laboratory, read enough reports, generated enough data over the past 14 years as an environmental chemist to come the realization that the lower on the food chain something is, the higher the concentration of contamination {whether it be heavy metals, organic chemicals}.
and Humans that consume these 'lower food chain beings' thing tend to bioaccumulate these toxins at the highest rate of all and the damage to their nervous systems, organs, and general quality of life can be quite obvious in the final years if not before.
but, on the other hand
http://www.junkscience.com/ddtfaq.htm
i am biased, and this link is an alternative take on the data
Personally, if i can limit my exposure to chemicals that kill things, i'm all for it, but at the same time i don't really enjoy insects.
Edited by SCThornley 2006-06-16 10:54 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | STC,
You've just inspired me to go eat some nasty fish this weekend. I think I'll serve up my famous Grouper Parmesian for our Father's Day celebration. Then we shall have Shrimp Scampi for an appetizer,  | |
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| Enjoy!
Here's hoping your father's day celebration is a fabulous occasion! | |
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| http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/06/16/D8I9BVQO0.html
this is the sort of thing i used to clean up right here in the USA, when i was a field chemist | |
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| Lobsters aren't generally scavengers, that's a common misconception. They are bottom feeders sure, after all they do mostly crawl. But bottom feeder isn't the same as scavenger. They eat stuff like mussels, clams, urchins, snails, starfish, flounder and whatever fish they can get. (Yeah, other lobsters too.) | |
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| aystam - 2006-06-16 11:54 AM
Lobsters aren't generally scavengers, that's a common misconception. They are bottom feeders sure, after all they do mostly crawl. But bottom feeder isn't the same as scavenger. They eat stuff like mussels, clams, urchins, snails, starfish, flounder and whatever fish they can get. (Yeah, other lobsters too.)
filter feeders are even yuckier!
if you're going to eat something that eats filter feeders you really are packing on the toxins | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I love Lobster with melted dripping butter!!!
Seems like there are lots of misconceptions going around - especially amoung scientists. hahaha | |
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| Cyndi - 2006-06-16 2:02 PM
I love Lobster with melted dripping butter!!!
Seems like there are lots of misconceptions going around - especially amoung scientists. hahaha
i have no misconceptions about what people enjoy tasting
i also have no misconceptions about what is soluble in the flesh and fat of living organisms.
ENJOY your food, while you can
i also, fully, recognize my bias when it comes to these subjects. In the laboratory, i've analyzed thousands upon thousands of fish, shellfish, and crustacean samples, and i know what is in these organisms
and now that i know, i can't un-know what i've learned, and i don't want to put that stuff in my body
you may, and obviously do, feel free to eat as much of it as you want
and enjoy you're Father's Day weekend....i talked to my Father today!
he sent me this,
{his father, my grandfather, died after his kidneys failed---he loved seafood }
When I was:
Four years old: My daddy can do anything.
Five years old: My daddy knows a whole lot.
Six years old: My dad is smarter than your dad.
Eight years old: My dad doesn't know exactly everything.
Ten years old: In the olden days, when my dad grew up,
things were sure different.
Twelve years old: Oh, well, naturally, Dad doesn't know
anything about that. He is too old to remember his
childhood.
Fourteen years old: Don't pay any attention to my dad. He is
so old-fashioned.
Twenty-one years old: Him? My Lord, he's hopelessly out of
date.
Twenty-five years old: Dad knows about it, but then he
should, because he has been around so long.
Thirty years old: Maybe we should ask Dad what he thinks.
After all, he's had a lot of experience.
Thirty-five years old: I'm not doing a single thing until I
talk to Dad.
Forty years old: I wonder how Dad would have handled it. He
was so wise.
Fifty years old: I'd give anything if Dad were here now so I
could talk this over with him. Too bad I didn't appreciate
how smart he was. I could have learned a lot from him.
Writer Unknown
Edited by SCThornley 2006-06-16 2:14 PM
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| SCThornley - 2006-06-16 10:39 AM
Pollution is a problem, a Global Problem, there is no clean spot left.
Couldn't you then say that nothing is safe? And that no matter what you eat you are ingesting polluted produce/meats/fish/etc?
I understand not wanting to eat foods that are loaded with chemicals, but to assume this holier than thou attitude...sheesh. | |
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| I am happy to see the title of this thread. Just last night while I was in the newest WF in Las Vegas, getting my veggies grilled, I was thinking I was in the best WF store in the whole world. In the whole galaxy! They actually have a vegetable grilling station in this new Whole Foods.
Apparently they have pretty decent employee health benefits, too.
Yes, Kudos to John Mackey!
And good for the lobsters, too. (The best lobster I ever had was in Mexico - along with the best frijoles and tortillas. Now I'm hungry) | |
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| Samara267 - 2006-06-16 4:09 PM
SCThornley - 2006-06-16 10:39 AM
Pollution is a problem, a Global Problem, there is no clean spot left.
Couldn't you then say that nothing is safe? And that no matter what you eat you are ingesting polluted produce/meats/fish/etc?
I understand not wanting to eat foods that are loaded with chemicals, but to assume this holier than thou attitude...sheesh.
Holy than thou? What do you mean?
if you want to eat these things go ahead, but from all of the data and samples that i've collected and analyzed as part of my job as an environmental chemist for the past 14 years, i don't think it's a very healthy choice.
you are completely free to choose what ever you wish to,
"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." Eleanor Roosevelt
i do not feel holier than anyone, i am not
i have information that many people do not take the time to bother with, nothing more.
Reading is fundamental and Knowledge is Power
& btw
my wife likes to eat seafood, she does, as often as she wishes, and i pay for it.
i just don't eat it.
i've told her why i don't eat it, she doesn't care, she likes how it tastes and that's that for her.
Edited by SCThornley 2006-06-16 4:45 PM
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| Bah! Lobster's have a brain smaller than your pinky. You've probably got more brains in your computer than the average lobster. If anything eating lobster is MORE humane than eating something a little higher up the chain. (Like dolphin, even though dolphin tastes a lot better).
As far as the poison fish goes, I think there's probably a lot of variance in this. Are the fish raised in farms (like Catfish) better or worse than fish from other parts of the world? Are all fish equally polluted, or just certain species? Do some species retain more of the bad sorts of heavy metals and such? | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I won't touch Farm Raised ANYTHING or Asian Seafood!!
I will only eat WILD caught from the West (as in the Atlantic on the Eastern Coast), North (as in Alaska to Maine) South (of Florida) and Southwestern (as far south as Costa Rica) on this side of the hemisphere! That is subject to change, but for now we are generally safe in these waters...contrary to other opinions. | |
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| I was thinking the worst thing to eat was geletin, no offence GJ. That's hard to avoid because the food companies are putting it in everything. I read a lot of labels and it gets exhausting. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| There is NOTHING that is safe to eat. Everyone I know who has died in the past 25 years was a lifelong eater. Don't eat. You'll be fine. Maybe not drink the water, either......  | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Oh yea, and germs are everywhere, so don't touch anything, don't BREATH....which means you may have to quit YOGA!!!! or you can always wear a face mask, and carry Dial anti-bacterial soap with you at all times, better yet, carry around a can of Lysol spray.  | |
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| Cyndi - 2006-06-16 4:58 PM
I won't touch Farm Raised ANYTHING or Asian Seafood!!
I will only eat WILD caught from the West (as in the Atlantic on the Eastern Coast), North (as in Alaska to Maine) South (of Florida) and Southwestern (as far south as Costa Rica) on this side of the hemisphere! That is subject to change, but for now we are generally safe in these waters...contrary to other opinions.
good, because the fish food that they use is not good
i read the lab report on it
bad bad stuff | |
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| tourist - 2006-06-16 7:14 PM
There is NOTHING that is safe to eat. Everyone I know who has died in the past 25 years was a lifelong eater. Don't eat. You'll be fine. Maybe not drink the water, either......
k
sorry if i got on a soap box
but environmental contamination is my career  | |
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| Cyndi - 2006-06-16 7:53 PM
Oh yea, and germs are everywhere, so don't touch anything, don't BREATH....which means you may have to quit YOGA!!!! or you can always wear a face mask, and carry Dial anti-bacterial soap with you at all times, better yet, carry around a can of Lysol spray.
i'm not a germaphobe
i just have had more than my fair share of seafood when i was young
when i got my entry and exit physical examinations for "Hazardous Site Worker" and they ran a whole set of special blood tests on me to see what contaminants were in my blood to make a base line and then to see where i was on exit it sort of opened my eyes to what is in food...
of course all the lab samples(1,000's) sorta sealed the deal in my mind
but i appologize, i know that i'm being especially subjective on this matter
sorry | |
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| SCThornley - 2006-06-16 1:44 PM
filter feeders are even yuckier!
if you're going to eat something that eats filter feeders you really are packing on the toxins
filter feeders are pretty darn low on the food chain, where less toxins should have accumulated. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey STC,
I didn't post this thread to argue with you about whether lobster and crabs were dirty to eat. Why don't you stay on topic or start your own GD thread! | |
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| And, here at least, they have a fine, diverse selection of beer that you can assemble as you please. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey BB,
Have you tried their organic Beer yet??? | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| SCT - I sympathise. The more you know about this stuff, the more you know the world is getting pretty messed up. Let's hope some of your work and that of others will help get it a little cleaner. I don't know if I can live without the possibility of eating seafood again, but I sure can begin to be more selective about it. Here on the west coast there are seafood restaurants started programs to only buy from companies who fish responsibly etc. They are even marketing kelp "caviar" which sounds better to me than the real stuff ever did  | |
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| Here where I live nursing mothers had their milk tested for PCB's, and yes there was plenty in there. Industry polluted the river that lots of people still eat out of. I'm sure that's everywhere though. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | This was the reason I posted this to begin with...to talk about the positive things being done, rather than to focus on the negative.
It was quite irritating to have the *other* crap brought up, when we are slammed with that crap every day. Steven, you are not the only one who can see these things, you don't have to have a rocket scientist degree to know the severity of pollution these days!! We aren't stupid.
Company's such as WF's, Earthfare, Wild Oats and others, are doing a remarkable job of bringing this awareness to the public. It's more than the average grocery store chain would do. (Sorry Wal-mart, no matter what you *try* to do organically, I'm afraid the damage you've done to the communities of America is far greater than adding Organic Vegetables to your produce section!! ) I support these sincere company's 150%. We can talk about negative stuff all day long, be depressed and have a negative outlook of gloom and doom, but hey, we need to start focusing and stay focused on the greater good and implement the change that we would like to see happen. So there you go. | |
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| Cyndi - 2006-06-17 9:02 AM
Hey STC,
I didn't post this thread to argue with you about whether lobster and crabs were dirty to eat. Why don't you stay on topic or start your own GD thread!
Willakers!
hope you had a good weekend
i was practicing pneumatic floor nailer yoga all Saturday, putting in an oak floor in my youngest daughter's joint room...removed the carpet, and stuff, lots of labor....
and i hope you enjoyed your shrimp scampi
i had some good figs
Edited by SCThornley 2006-06-18 8:24 PM
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Location: London, England | Hi all,
I cannot see why some of you are being rude to Steven-he seems to know what he is talking about, and tells us without arrogance-then some of you are arguing about something that you know nothing about-now that is arrogance. We need to recognize when experts have our best interests at heart, and thank them for telling us, and I'll bet anything this is one of those times-thanks for the info Steven, luckily I've never been into these types of seafood.
Take care
Nick
Edited by Nick 2006-06-19 1:47 AM
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| If you become rude to my big brother SCT, I shall ask him to hug you very tightly. Then, you can not escape. | |
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| maybe it is time for a group hug
(((((((((((((((((HUG))))))))))))))))))))
i love you all, and all of your opinions
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| I'll be the first to admit I know only a tiny fraction. It wasn't my intention to be rude, but to comment on the tiny fraction that I know about. I wish there were a Whole Foods Market in my area, maybe I wouldn't have to read so many labels. As for lobster, I haven't tasted one in years, but I can remember the flavor of it dipped in melted butter, ah it was lovely. I can make food choices for myself pretty well, sticking to beans, grains, and of course the fruits and vegetables. Helping my kids make good choices though, that's another story. They have so much crappy food targeting young people, and their peers make it even harder. They can be pretty vocal about anyone eating anything "different" or even worse "stinky". Is it human nature that they look at each other's food choices and say ewwwww? I try to let them know that their being rude, but I'm pretty amazed that they've been allowed to react this way all their lives, and haven't been told. I appreciate all the information here, Now, does someone need a hug? I have long arms. | |
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| aystam - 2006-06-17 1:03 AM
SCThornley - 2006-06-16 1:44 PM
filter feeders are even yuckier!
if you're going to eat something that eats filter feeders you really are packing on the toxins
filter feeders are pretty darn low on the food chain, where less toxins should have accumulated.
low on food chain doesn't always mean low in contamination
considering many filter feeders and bottom feeders aren't especially mobile, it really depends on where they are. If they are in a deposit region or channel for contamination, they will be especially high in contamination concentration, whether that be hepatitis C or some other bioaccumulating chemical.
Oysters seem to blossom in sewage channels, eating these contaminated organisms can lead to hepatitis if they are not properly cooked, and oyster on the halfshell is never properly cooked.
The same can be said of any organism that feeds off of these filter feeders.
but conclusively speaking, filter feeders are there to filter the water and clean it, their very purpose (in my opinion) is to clean up the filth that deposits in there locale.
Edited by SCThornley 2006-06-19 10:26 AM
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| BQ - good luck with the kids and food! Both of mine are excellent cooks, one in training to become a chef, because I refused to cater to every whim and desire as they grew up. Not keeping junky food in the house helps a lot too, Then they can only choose from the what is available. My favourite story is about a friend whose philosophy was extremely health oriented and her kids never had even typical cereals like cheerios. When they decided to be picky eaters and not want what she made for breakfast (hot oatmeal) they "rebelled" by eating their oatmeal uncooked  I have had parents tell me they "had to buy pop-tarts" because their kids woudn't eat what they made for breakfast - obviously there are other choices
Be careful offering hugs with SCT around - he is 6' 9"! Industrial strength hugs | |
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| Where I am, people fish out of the river, and eat mostly catfish, and perch, there are other types also. The perch is preferred because of it's mild flavors, but some of the fattier varieties are preffered by people who smoke the fish. Does the fat store more toxins, because some people think if they can trim some fat off, the rest will be okay to eat. Either way, a lot of people eat the fish, and also swim in the river. | |
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| bstqltmkr - 2006-06-19 10:44 AM
Where I am, people fish out of the river, and eat mostly catfish, and perch, there are other types also. The perch is preferred because of it's mild flavors, but some of the fattier varieties are preffered by people who smoke the fish. Does the fat store more toxins, because some people think if they can trim some fat off, the rest will be okay to eat. Either way, a lot of people eat the fish, and also swim in the river.
Fat soluble chemicals like DDT, DDE, DDD and PCBs will accumulate at higher concentrations in the the fat.
I used to love eating perch, and bluefish, rockfish, flounder, croaker, drum, heck i even caught a skate once.....memories
without knowing for sure where you live or what river you're talking about I really don't know, but consider this.....
water flows downhill, and as it flows it washes away the dirty surface stuff and dead things, into the sewer, or drainage and into the river and then into the sea. All of the things that live in the river live in the contamination that is rinsed away and, in the case of sewage and farming, sometimes dumped in the river.
How often have you read about the infrastructure needing to be rebuilt or at the very least maintained?
One of the biggest infrastructures that everyone uses on a daily basis is connected to your toilet. When this is overloaded, it is normally dumped into the nearest river. Raw sewage leaks happen very often, and even more so where new real estate development is taking place, because lots of people are building homes, very few are building sewage treatment plants.
The return on investment (ROI) is very low for a sewage treatment plant, compared to real estate development.
Surficial water is normally the most contaminated water, chemically and biologically, that is why many drinking water wells are deeper than 100 to 300 feet, however many of those are turning out to be contaminated as well.
chlorinated solvent and MTBE contamination will often lead to a sweet flavor in the water--can anybody say, "Goodbye Kidneys"?
C'est la vie
Edited by SCThornley 2006-06-19 11:16 AM
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| Yuck.
Does that mean we shouldn't eat fish?
All I can say is @#$%@*&^%!
I love fish.
Mad cow, bird flu, fish toxins....maybe we ARE supposed to be vegetarian?
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| *Fifi* - 2006-06-19 12:38 PM
Yuck.
Does that mean we shouldn't eat fish?
All I can say is @#$%@*&^%!
I love fish.
Mad cow, bird flu, fish toxins....maybe we ARE supposed to be vegetarian?
Well, i don't know, but one thing is for sure,
we were not meant to eat chemicals, sewage, and waste products..... | |
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| How did food become such a depressing topic? I quit eating meat because I thougt steriods were making me angry, and had to research recipes. As a result there are less and less foods I want to eat. On the plus side, I know many more variations on how to cook them. At least the kids like beans and brown rice, and I try not to freak out if they eat a little sugar. As we all heard, there are way worse things out there. They're not much into preparing it for themselves yet, but they show potential. Yay. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| BQ - I used to go to class with a woman who moaned about how hard it was to get to class on time because she had to cook dinner for her family. When I found out she had a 25 year old, a 22 year old (both male  ) and a husband at home, I had to restrain myself for either laughing at her or lecturing her. Gotta start 'em young | |
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| Back to the original intent of the post...
I too was very happy to see the management of Whole Foods decide that they couldn't be certain that animals were not coming to undue harm through their own practices, and hence they would stop those practices until such time as they could be certain that the animals would not come to undue harm. This isn't even an issue of cleanliness, this is a question of apparently cruelty. Even the WF people noted that they don't know if what the lobsters were exposed to was cruel, but they thought it might be, and they weren't comfortable with that. It went against their morals. So they made a moral decision, rather than trying to just bring in more money.
Kudos to them for making the moral decision, even in the face of uncertainty! | |
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| bstqltmkr - 2006-06-19 6:50 PM
How did food become such a depressing topic?
When the general population started to have access to Education.
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| So I guess ignorance is bliss, for the mind at least, until you body starts to feel the effects of the poison you've been eating. | |
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| bstqltmkr - 2006-06-20 8:26 AM
So I guess ignorance is bliss, for the mind at least, until you body starts to feel the effects of the poison you've been eating.
i unfortunately must concur with you
once we gain the knowledge to improve our lot in life, we also gain the knowledge as to what needs to be improved
and
there is never, ever, ever a lack of need when it comes to improvements | |
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| Sort of like working on a house, and finishing one part. Once you sit down and relax to admire your hard work, you notice now this looks shabby, or this other part needs improvement, and the next thing you know your chore list is all long again. Life is good, but it sure as hell ain't easy.
Edited by bstqltmkr 2006-06-20 9:19 AM
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| you've said a mouthful
especially since my hands are still healing from the unfinished oak flooring i put in my youngest daughters' bedroom this past Saturday...
nothing like porcelain tile or hardwood floors to make all the carpet in the rest of your home look completely horrid.
But whether it's work on the house you live in or work on the body/psyche you live in...the work is never done.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Nick - 2006-06-19 1:46 AM
I cannot see why some of you are being rude to Steven
Excuse me?? This thread has been severely hi-jacked and way OFF TOPIC...who's rude?? Oh well, STC, you can have this thread...too bad we can't change the name of the topic and dedicate it to YOU SHOULD NOT EAT FISH, MEAT OR DRINK ANY WATER.
Edited by Cyndi 2006-06-20 10:07 AM
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| Cyndi - 2006-06-20 10:05 AM
Nick - 2006-06-19 1:46 AM
I cannot see why some of you are being rude to Steven
Excuse me?? This thread has been severely hi-jacked and way OFF TOPIC...who's rude?? Oh well, STC, you can have this thread...too bad we can't change the name of the topic and dedicate it to YOU SHOULD NOT EAT FISH, MEAT OR DRINK ANY WATER.
i still wuv u, Cyndi | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | SCThornley - 2006-06-20 10:09 AM
i still wuv u, Cyndi
Oh Joy, | |
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| Cyndi - 2006-06-20 12:18 PM
SCThornley - 2006-06-20 10:09 AM
i still wuv u, Cyndi
Oh Joy,
happy happy, joy joy | |
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| I was just going to take a quick peek and see how things were going, but now that I'm sitting here cracking up, I have to add. I'll take the blame for the off thread thing, this isn't the first place I would be found guilty for that. There is havoc over in the Iyengar forum, with quilts being displayed, which I love by the way. Maybe I'll start a thread and call it chaos. Since we're way off the subject anyway, I have to mention about the rug thing, we live in an older house, and the first thing we did was pull out the rugs. That was totally gross, and I would recommend a dust mask for sure. Someone else can add on the wonders of dust mites, or anything else that might have been in there, I'm sure. Sorry Cyndi. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Okay, lets go start a thread about "Housecleaning"....although, I do believe Zoebird did a Spring Cleaning thread recently....she might give you some ideas. Better hurry, she's leaving for Scandinevia (sp?) in a couple of days....and I doubt she will be posting Housecleaning tips on her trip blog,
Edited by Cyndi 2006-06-20 3:31 PM
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| GreenJello - 2006-06-20 7:40 PM
nuclear_eggset - 2006-06-19 11:06 PM
So they made a moral decision, rather than trying to just bring in more money.
Kudos to them for making the moral decision, even in the face of uncertainty!
If they made a "moral" decision, then why is it front page news? I'm not entirely convinced that this isn't a publicity stunt. If all they wanted to do was to stop selling lobster and crab, they could have easily have done that quietly.
As for the thread going off topic, who cares, it's interesting, and completely normal for human interaction.
They didn't stop selling lobster or crab,
they just stopped selling live lobster
they still sell frozen lobster | |
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| SCThornley - 2006-06-20 7:42 PM
they just stopped selling live lobster
they still sell frozen lobster
Okay, sounds even MORE like a publicity stunt. With live lobster you can be guaranteed that the lobster will die a certain way, ie boiling. What control do they have over the frozen lobster? For that matter what about all the other animals in their stores? I gotta assume this is partially because people can SEE the live lobsters, while they don't SEE the live cows. | |
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| GreenJello - 2006-06-20 9:16 PM
SCThornley - 2006-06-20 7:42 PM
they just stopped selling live lobster
they still sell frozen lobster
Okay, sounds even MORE like a publicity stunt. With live lobster you can be guaranteed that the lobster will die a certain way, ie boiling. What control do they have over the frozen lobster? For that matter what about all the other animals in their stores? I gotta assume this is partially because people can SEE the live lobsters, while they don't SEE the live cows.
Well if you have ever read a recipe for grilled lobster, they often start by saying to cut the live lobster in half and don't worry, they don't feel a thing! ;) So I don't know that you can guarantee the lobster will die a certain way. And people leave their kids in hot cars and they die too in the summer. Could just as easily be a bag o' lobsters they just bought while they run in and get a coffee drink and run into the neighbor and sit down for a few hours. Probably wouldn't even get reprimanded for animal cruelty.
The rationale I remember from the story for canned and frozen lobster was that they would only use suppliers who they felt followed ethical production/capture/killing procedures that met their standards. If the suppliers couldn't certify to those standards, then they wouldn't carry their products. With the live lobsters, they found no good way to certify where they had come from and how they had been treated, so they decided to do away with their tanks altogehter. Not saying I buy that 100%, but that was the party line. (And I must admit I didn't read the whole thread to see if this had been said before. me bad.)
I do agree it is also a visual thing or perhaps even a near visual thing. We had a recent uproar in my area about a new Hispanic oriented grocery store that was going to be slaughtering chickens in a controlled, back area of the store, in order to bring the freshest poultry to their consumers. Apparently this is something of a cultural tradition. They had worked through all the proper channels and approvals and were ready to open the store to much fanfare, but once people (primarily anglos IMO) got wind that they would actually KILL chickens in the same place that they were sold, the proverbial smelly subtance hit the electrical wind conveyance. I found it an interesting idea and business model. Others were "shocked" and "horrified". Where did they think those things in the meat counter were coming from? Why does it make any difference if they are slaughtered in some mega facility in Arkansas or in a certified facility in another area of the store? It wasn't like they were putting picture windows in or anything! But I think it just hits too close to home to have to actually think about the process that occurs for most people to be comfortable with it. Same idea with the tanks too I suppose. | |
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| WHOA!! I just read through this entire board and HOLY COW! There's a little hostility and non-yoga-ness all around. Thank God I'm allergic to the little buggers we are talking about. I read once that a lobster's closest genetic relative is a cockroach- and I'm not planning on eating those anytime soon either! My husband and I keep a reef tank- we have filter feeders (corals), and some crustaceans.. they don't necessarily eat the "poop" of the tank. In fact, my emerald crabs LOVE LOVE LOVE nori. The typically eat the amphipods and copepods (little bug-like) things out of the sand and rock. It's the hermit crabs, starfish, snail, etc that eat the detritus.
I've worked in several places that served lobster and I can say that I have never been forced to kill one. We used to separate the tail and claws while it was still alive and seeing it moving all ripped up was too much for me. Now, Jasper White (the guy who was the original Legal Seafoods- so maybe a little biased) said that lobsters lack central nervous systems and that is why they don't feel that they are being ripped apart. Much in the same way frogs cannot detect temperature changes- that's why you start them in cold water and bring up the temp (I can't do this either)
I'm gonna vote and say that SCT knows what he's talking about. I'm guessing that if this is his career, he's got something invested in this knowledge- and it's not random stuff off the internet (like I read!! HAHAHA- just kidding).
As for WF, it's probably a gimmick- I worked for a place kinda like WF in Texas called Central Market- and while there is a level of consciousness there- they are still out for a profit. And they are going to do what it takes to get consumers into their store. Especially now that there are other competitors popping up. We used to create holidays, marketing schemes, anything to get a buck... like any consumer industry. Don't get my wrong. I LOVE WF and Central Market (even though I don't live in Texas either) and I want them to succeed and make a buck in the process. I have nothing against that (esp. as a business owner). These stores filled a niche that was desperate to be filled. There is a new store popping up in the DC area called MOM (My Organic Market) who, for me, is giving WF a run for their money. It's a smaller store- but with better overall product. Man, I could talk about grocery stores for days! I'll stop here....
Now, as someone who has dedicated my life to the culinary industry, I have cooked my fair share of foie gras- BUT, I will say kudos to Chicago for banning it. As tasty as it is, it's really difficult to enjoy it once you know how it's made. So, really, I think that should be a thing of the past and put to rest. If I'm not mistaken.... you can still get this at WF- at least in pate form for sure...
hmmmmmm......poor little lobsters with no nervous system..... or ramming tubes down ducks' throats and force feeding them up to 10x what they should eat 2x/day...Hmmmmmmm....... I'm thinking they should lose the foie... | |
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| Ok, I'm going to clarify something here.. crustaceans don't only eat the dead stuff and doo-doo off the ocean floor- they basically eat anything- the little bugs I mentioned, micro algae(mainly), and, when food is sparse, the kill and eat each other. So, they can be nasty depending on their environment. My emerald crabs and shrimp eat algae and pods.... but my hermit crabs in my other tank feast like kings on the left over food from Slim Jim, my eel. He's a pretty sloppy eater so the hermits come running like the zombies in Michael Jackson's Thriller video... | |
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| cockroaches....yum....
There are traditional Chinese herbal medicinal teas that use a particular kind of cockroach (dried). This particular bug is in the ingivorate blood category. The story goes that prisoners in a filthy, cold and dready Chinese prison, being tortured on a daily basis, discovered eating the cockroaches in their cells helped to ease their pain (by invigorating their blood {and qi}).
The Chinese discovered uses for scoriopns, centipedes and earthworms. If it moves, they consume it.
I still like Whole Foods! | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Yea, and don't forget the other Chinese saying Fifi, "Fish can't live in too clean of water".
I still like Whole Foods....although, I found a new market, that is an oldie, older than WF's in the town I shop at. I like WF's Heirloom Tomatoes...just wish they weren't so dam expensive.
Like today, using my neice's Father's home grown tomatoes, I made 10 pints of Salsa, 4 Quarts of Italian Sauce and a "real" pound cake. Tonight's dinner is Salsa w/ Blue and White Organic Corn Chips, Italian Pork Sausage with my Italian Sauce simmered slowly in a red wine and a piece of my cake. My treat for a hard day's work! Talk about your whole foods,
Edited by Cyndi 2006-08-19 8:49 PM
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| I like sherbert.
Hershey Chocolate factory is just up the road here in PA, and there are so many dairies here in York that it seems like everyone has an ice cream stand or every corner has an old house converted to a diner with a creamery downstairs.
The best sherbert of the year so far has been lemon lime sherbert. It's day glow green and just wonderful after dinner.
Sherbert is my guilty pleasure. | |
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| "I love lamp." <--Anchorman...
Anyhoo, I love the heirloom tomatoes myself- but they are $$$$. I keep telling myself that I'll grow them next year- only next year hasn't happened yet. It's been about 5 years that I've told myself that. But the plants and seeds for them aren't that expensive. It's the fact that not a lot of growers have them. Big Rainbow is my favorite. I worked in an upscale restaurant in Boston awhile back. One of our dishes was a deconstructed tomato tart (that's before deconstructed food was everywhere- it's a little annoying now) ANYHOO.... the plate had to have at minimum 8 different varieties of heirloom tomatoes represented. I had a big bowl of them on my station. They're so pretty. I'm a big produce nerd. I love the shapes, the colors, flavors, everything! I learned sooo much that year about food..... it was cool... | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Brandywine makes and excellent tasting tomato....but they all are really "ugly" tomaters,
I grew my own heirloom tomatoes this year....these I eat fresh. Although, the plants are near their end. The tomatoes I made salsa and Italian sauce with came from my brother-in-law's garden....he planted over 150 tomato plants. Swears he will never have problems with his prostrate cause he eats them every day. When I picked up my neice a couple of weeks ago, he had all these tomatoes lining the decks and patio...zillions of them, and completely organic. He said, "take a few home Cyndi" and I most certainly did.
I am seriously looking into making a Hydroponic garden in this small area of my house. I am planning on growing tomatoes and starting plants in it. I just have to make the time to do some re-modeling and painting first. This may be next year's project. | |
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| I love planting heirloom tomatoes.
As long as I don't pick all of them, they always volunteer next year.
I had to do my best to erradicate a purple heirloom ugly tomatoe, because it was trying to take over my entire garden.
Now it's just a weed in the overgrowth behind the garden.
I like the amish paste and I guess it's a daughter of the amish paste and the purple ugly.
Very drought tolerant, and since I don't water, that makes a difference. | |
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| Cyndi- how could you say they are ugly?! I love the chaos in their shape!
I have to say, hands down, my favorite is Big Rainbow- so gorgeous, so yummy. I also like Green Zebra.
SCT- cool to know that they are drought tolerant. I tend to not water as often either. Maybe I should try my hand at it. So you know as well as I that they are not worth the hefty price tag they come with.
Mushrooms are the same way- all of the Chanterelles, trumpets, hen of the woods, etc. are not worth the $25/lb price tag they carry. Maybe down south. where mushrooms don't grow as easily- kind of like citrus up here. But up north (and in PA for sure! mushroom country) it's silly to pay that much.
I've always wanted to learn how to forage for mushrooms. My grandpa did it in WVA. (he passed away LONG before I came around) I remember my Mom almost passed out when she saw the price on morels- when she was little, they'd forage for them and they were called mollymoochers. We had a forager who would come to the restaurant I worked at in Boston. We'd buy cool ones out of his van- he never charged that much- in fact, he usually traded for plastic containers. We knew he wouldn't bring us poisonous ones because he sold to nearly every upscale restaurant in Boston. He couldn't damage his rep like that. It was awesome. We don't run into those guys down here. | |
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KUDOS to Whole Foods Market