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Location: canada | what is everyone's opinion on the right amount of protein. i keep reading about 1g of protein per lb of body weight (more for bodybuilding) or 1g per kg of body weight (more realistic) but some people say even that is too much. how much is enough??? protein seems to be more difficult to gauge than carbs. everything is carbs; rice, potato, bread, fruits, even beans is mostly carbs! i think i get around 50-60g per day or so which is right around 1g per kg.
what do you think? | |
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| i function better in percentages. i get 20-30% fats, 25-30% protien, and 40-65% carbs. My carbs i divide into 'simple' and 'complex.' i get 60-70% simple and 30-40% complex (of that 40-65%).
So, my typical day looks like this:
breakfast smoothie: Macedemia nut cream (nuts soaked overnite in water, then blended with coconut water to make a 'cream') with mixed berries (frozen) and coconut oil (1 tbsp) with a bit of cranberry lemonaide and some aloe juice (frozen into cubes).
snack: apple, raw cheese (right now, sharp cheddar), and walnuts
lunch: large salad with various veggies and sprouted beans and seeds (i love sprouts). Sometimes, i make a nut pate to add to it or i'll add eggs and cheese. I use olive oil, mustard, and sea salt as my dressing. As it's the winter, i've added in these amazing whole-grain raisin rolls and raw butter to the meal.
snack: currently, because lunch is so large, i'm not interested in a snack. but, if i'm rock climbing and i have to teach over my usual dinner hour, i'll have stuffed dates (dates, almonds, and coconut shavings)--usually 2 or 3.
dinner: winter dinners are usually soups of various sorts--pumpkin, butter nut squash, mixed vegetables and beans, black bean chili. i usuall have a salad or steamed veggies and i'll make corn bread if i'm having chili (jalapeno corn bread). For the other soups, i prefer sourdough or pumpernickel. i buy them from my HFS's bakery.
Snack: currently, i crave broccoli at about 9 o'clock. So, i have broccoli. Sometimes, i'll have home-made ice cream or home made hot vanilla or chocolate.
But, as you can see, i eat mostly veggies and fruit, followed by things that are fatty like olive oil, butter, coconut oil, avocado is good. And then it gets starchier in the evening because i get chilly in the evening and these help fuel the internal fire. In the summer, i tend to eat more veggies and fruits--particularly in the evenings--because it's cooler and lighter. I also tend to eat less fat and i hardly eat any bread at all in the summer months. I do eat tortillas--i either make my own or get them from the local tortilla factory (we have a large migrant community here in PA, so we get a lot of great mexican and central american foods!). | |
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| I believe that if you really tune in to what your body is telling you, you will get all the nutrients you need, protein included. Many people actually get too much protein which can cause as much problems in the body as too little.
Afetr my nutrition studies and personal experience I feel that this is a good judge if you need numbers:
Average person 0.8grams per Kilogram of ideal bodyweight
Athletes 1.2-1.7grams per Kilogram of ideal bodyweight
(kilograms = pounds divided by 2.2)
So your guess is pretty accurate fechter03
It is also important the TYPE of protein you are getting because if you can't digest and assimilate it for what it is needed for, no matter how much you eat it ain't going to do you much good.
Bottom line is though, how do YOU feel with what you are eating?
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Twisti,
I totally agree with what you are saying about eating what your body tells you to and being AWARE and listening to that. I eat so simply every day that I don't have to spend all that energy adding and subtracting - another words doing Math...I just know enough about food and vegetables as they function with the body. Another words, I learned what benefits of what various vegetables, fruits and meats, how they function when I eat them and I use that as my guideline. That is why I like Paul Pitchford's book, "Healing with Whole Foods". It is a basic book that helps you learn the art of eating.
I too use the Spirutein Protein Shake - Vanilla flavor,  I do not drink it every day because I do not need it every day. I drink it when my body tells me I need it. I don't eat raw foods every day and if I am feeling over heated or whatever, I eat a raw salad. I cook only a couple of vegetables a day and then I balance it out with rice, roti or cornbread or whatever, and don't make a big deal about it.
When you start counting all this stuff and going nuts with it, I think you end up harming yourself more rather than just simply sitting still and listening. Your body does have a natural KNOWING of what it needs...you just have to learn how to tap into it with common sense. You don't have to get a rocket science degree in nutrition. When I learned how to do this, I maintain a balanced body weight and I learned how to relax about it which is the most important factor....RELAX and BALANCE which are the two key factors of diet. | |
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| Right on Cyndi - anything math related has to add stress!  No extra math in my day, thanks. I like a simple system like - a protein serving the size of your palm, a similar serving of a starch and 2 or 3 times that much in veg. Stir fry it, throw it in a soup or casserole or serve it the way we grew up with - arrange piece by piece on the plate. Simple. IF one is going to do such fussing around at all. It is even simpler just to not buy drive-thru anything and shop the periphery of the grocery store. If it is not in you house, you can't eat it! | |
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I'm going to hide what you said about Math from my daughter. We have had the week of hell with trying to learn fractions!!! She hates it. So do I, but I have to not be able to show that I truly hate Math too. I have to pretend that it really is good for you Kristina to learn and know this!!! I feel like such a hypocrite,
It's funny, Science is not another good subject either for us. It is so friggin boring. Anyway, the other day I said to her, what would YOU like to learn that is scientifically related...she told me Astrology. I said Whoopee, let's do it and have some fun, Unfortunately we can't get around the Math and Algebra....  | |
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| Hey fechter: I think you should give more importance to what kind of food you eat, rather than to the amount of proteins, etc. Once you decide that, you should eat to satisfaction variety of stuff from your decided kind of food. And, do not overeat. (Undereating is done by only very few in Americas. Mostly they overeat). And, the body shall automatically retain what it needs and throw what it does not. And, you will notice it yourself.
Neel Kulkarni
http://www.authenticyoga.org | |
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | kulkarnn - 2005-12-10 2:46 PM
And, the body shall automatically retain what it needs and throw what it does not. And, you will notice it yourself.
Neelbhai,
I have a comment about this statement. I am not disagreeing with you at all. However, I don't think the body throws out everything it does not need. Especially if there are elimination and digestion problems present. Then the body in its process of *trying* to eliminate, turns it into pure FAT!!  But, from a nutritutional vitamin, mineral and protein point of view, yes, the body does not retain what it does not need. Overeating is another matter altogether in that regard. We Americans do that over the holidays with all of our rich tasting yummy food....but, some Americans think that every day is a holiday cause they can't get enough of the good time that they had, so they keep eating that food thinking it will bring that good cheer and happiness, so therefore, they keep eating that way all year long....and that is why we have an obesity situtation here in the USA. | |
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Location: canada | kulkarnn - 2005-12-10 2:46 PM
Hey fechter: I think you should give more importance to what kind of food you eat, rather than to the amount of proteins, etc. Once you decide that, you should eat to satisfaction variety of stuff from your decided kind of food. And, do not overeat. (Undereating is done by only very few in Americas. Mostly they overeat). And, the body shall automatically retain what it needs and throw what it does not. And, you will notice it yourself.
Neel Kulkarni
http://www.authenticyoga.org
i try not to overeat. i hate feeling full and bloated but sometimes the hunger stays and my body gets confused.  | |
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| Cyndiben:
I agree that if the calorific food is overeaten it shall cause fat and other such things. Also, overeating of non fat can cause toxicity. So, overeating is not good. I meant only slightly overeating if one does not know what the amount is. And, what I meant is slight overeating of Correct Kind of Food. So, to give one example: If one has Rice in one's diet. The correct Rice is Brown Rice and not white rice at all. So, if one overeats slightly brown rice, there is no danger of getting fat. Same with whole almonds (non roasted), whole sprouted lentils as compared to lentil soups, etc.
Fletc: If you feel hungry, feel free to eat sumptuous whole food. And, you will feel good after some practice of this.
Now, if you want to be totally perfect about food and nutrition, I can tell you that it is a subject of its own, and it can not be learnt by little bit of bulletin board enquiries, and 30 min of study each day, and such. You have to spend a long effort to do this. Otherwise, you can start with All Raw Diet and then go from there. But, that is also a big deal.
That is why I suggested a simple method, and which is applicable to a Yoga student.
Neel Kulkarni
http://www.authenticyoga.org | |
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| on this issue of listening to your body and feeding it appropriately--which is my predominent practice--there's a great book by CHarles Eisenstien regarding this called "The Yoga of Eating." he states in the book that this is not about the yoga tradition or any of that, but about the notion of being mindful and present regarding your eating so that you can unify your body to the right diet. it's a really great book. | |
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Neelbhai, I totally agree with you about eating less and everything you said. This is how I've maintained my health for all my life. I was born a natural faster, It's not that complicated either.
Anyway, the reason I like Paul Pitchford's book, Healing with Whole Foods, is because its not about someone else telling their experience or instructions about how to eat. Paul's book gives you complete details about FOOD. It tells you the benefits and function of each individual item, including herbs and Ayurvedic principals as well. He further explains the body and it's natural system and how it works, and our relationship to the five elements and so on - based on Oriental Traditions. To me, it is better to educate yourself and know what is good for you and what you need, rather than an instructional manual and someone else's yoga program that may or may not work for your body. This book gives you the information that allows you to heal yourself naturally based on what you need. It also helps you understand the nature of food items and their benefit. It gives you the choice to make your own decisions about your health, which is a good thing to learn to do so you don't become so dam dependent on outside sources, it helps you relate to yourself. There are several other books out there similar to this which are really good sources of finding out the medicinal and benefits of eating a certain kind of food item and herbs.
You also learn like Neelbhai said, about eating the wrong things over and over again to the point where they become toxic to your body. Like for instance, people who love Honey Baked Ham for Christmas. Then they take it and eat it every day for weeks cause there is so much and then wonder why their colds and flu won't go away....Ham is very bad for a cold and talk about toxic. But, if you ate just a little tiny bit, you probably would never notice. Most people do NOT know how to connect what they have eaten with their illness's and discomforts - they don't have a clue. Like, I know at Thanksgiving I ate too much cornbread dressing, but I did that purely out of choice and I KNEW what the results of that would be
Edited by Cyndi 2005-12-11 10:00 AM
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: canada | oh, i forgot to add this:
everyone repeat after me: "MATH IS GOOD", "MATH IS GOOD", "WE LIKE MATH"!!!
ok, back to protein discussion. | |
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Fechter,
I double dare you to email my daughter and tell her that. She would freak, as she says!! | |
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| fechter03 - 2005-12-11 10:55 AM
oh, i forgot to add this:
everyone repeat after me: "MATH IS GOOD", "MATH IS GOOD", "WE LIKE MATH"!!!
ok, back to protein discussion.
Actually, my Barbie doll says that "MATH IS HARD".... | |
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Greenjello wrote and Cyndi almost fell off the kitchen stool, LMAO,
Actually, my Barbie doll says that "MATH IS HARD"....
GJ,
WTF are you doing with a Barbie Doll???? Now I know there is something strange about you,
Edited by Cyndi 2005-12-11 12:00 PM
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Location: canada | GreenJello - 2005-12-11 11:47 AM
Actually, my Barbie doll says that "MATH IS HARD"....
your babie doll is probably blonde..what else would you expect from a blonde.. | |
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Location: canada | Cyndi - 2005-12-11 11:04 AM
Fechter,
I double dare you to email my daughter and tell her that. She would freak, as she says!!
your daughter will be fine.
everyone forgets that the key to math is just like asana practice..REPETITION!! have her study EVERY DAY for small periods and it will become easy not to long after wards. for someone who's wary of graduate level math courses, i know. | |
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | fechter03 - 2005-12-11 12:05 PM
GreenJello - 2005-12-11 11:47 AM
Actually, my Barbie doll says that "MATH IS HARD"....
your babie doll is probably blonde..what else would you expect from a blonde..
Watch out....or Santa won't be coming down your chimney this year. I have close ties with him you know, | |
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | fechter03 - 2005-12-11 12:08 PM
your daughter will be fine.
everyone forgets that the key to math is just like asana practice..REPETITION!! have her study EVERY DAY for small periods and it will become easy not to long after wards. for someone who's wary of graduate level math courses, i know.
Believe me, I'm not worried about her and her *fine-ness*, its getting her to do the repetition part. I homeschool. Her opinion is Math has no point. Not to mention the stage of life that she is in right now...she just turned into a teenager the other day, it was her b-day. Yes, I know that repetition is how you learn Math and any other subjects, including Yoga Asana's....which is why we do it every single day. At least when you're doing yoga asana's, something happens, Math I'm afraid is a total boredom...like there is no movement of energy and it really sucks!! | |
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| Cyndi - 2005-12-11 11:58 AM
Greenjello wrote and Cyndi almost fell off the kitchen stool, LMAO,
Actually, my Barbie doll says that "MATH IS HARD"....
GJ,
WTF are you doing with a Barbie Doll????
Well.... Right now I'm making ends meet beating up little kids at the playground. (Which yoga helps with!) One them was a little short yesterday, so practicing Ahimsa, I decided to let her give me the Barbie instead of dangling her from the monkey bars. Aren't I a good little yogi! | |
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | GreenJello - 2005-12-11 12:32 PM
Well.... Right now I'm making ends meet beating up little kids at the playground. (Which yoga helps with! ) One them was a little short yesterday, so practicing Ahimsa, I decided to let her give me the Barbie instead of dangling her from the monkey bars. Aren't I a good little yogi!
Hmm?? Okay, sure. Yea right?? Okay, GJ..whatever you say,
So, like what are you going to do with this Barbie Doll now?? You know, you really should give the barbie back...you're not suppose to take Barbie dolls away from girls. Santa's gonna put you on the naughty list, | |
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Location: canada | Cyndi - 2005-12-11 12:15 PMHer opinion is Math has no point.
tell her that math is connected to EVERYTHING around her and that their operating principles are governed my math; you can't get away from it. without math we're back in the stone age.. | |
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| i find that math goes down better when it's really, really practical. I don't home school (obviously) but my friend was having trouble homeschooling her son and learning fractions. On the page, they didn't make a lot of sense to him. Unlike me, he didn't see them as fun puzzles.
So, i went over to give my friend a break and 'hang out' and i asked the little fella (he's 7) if he wanted to help me bake some things with his mom. I gave him the different fractions of cups and then asked him to get me 'one cup of this using the quarter cup' and 'how many will you need for it to make a cup?' and so on. while the muffins, biscuits, breads, and cookies were baking, i showed him how the same principles worked on the page--and that he could uses the figures on the page to figure out what he didn't know (which is actually basic algebra).
Now, no problems with fractions and his long division is excellent too. Oh, and he enjoys helping his mom cook. and he's also learning chemistry. he is doing well with money too, figuring out how to give 'a dollar and a half' or 'this item is 25% off--what percentage off is this item?" and from there--how much money is 25%? and what is the sale price?
At 7, the little guy is figuring out how to use math practically, and then his mom reinforces it with the workbooks.
so, maybe that'll be helpful to a teenager too--particularly when studying algebra which should be coming up in a year or two, right? | |
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Well, that's great for a 7 year old, but we are talking about a teenager with lack of motivation due to wanting to do other things...it's very normal.
Yes, we do lots of cooking in the kitchen with measuring cups and slicing fruits and vegetables to the percentages. Anyway, her thing right now is getting motivated to do the advanced fractions, this isn't simple fractions with fruit and veggies and the measuring cup anymore, this is about writing quotients as mixed numbers, renaming improper fractions, and adding and subtracting fractions with unlike denominators. It drives me crazy too, so dam time consuming and time is so precious Yep, this is preparation for Algebra...and I haven't met too many teenagers yet that like algebra, Math doesn't always remain practical Zoebird....Math is suppose to challenge your logical mind, which there ain't nothing practical about that, She can do this, she just doesn't like it and it is not her favorite thing such as English and Social Studies. My son in college still hates Math and his favorite subject is Religious studies. I think he especially likes it because he likes to debate with me, Although, when they were studying the Veda, he sat very patiently and listened to what Satyam and I had to say, which helped him in his class and the exam. That was interesting.
Oh well. So, are we going to discuss Math now instead of Protein?? Why don't ya'll get your A$$'s over here to NC and we will teach Kristina how to get over these fractions...cause we got to move on to MULTIPLICATION AND DIVISION OF FRACTIONS - UGH!!! | |
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| well, actually if she likes things in the subjective realm, she probably really enjoys the analytical but doesn't know it yet.
a lot of people who study humanities (social studies and english for example--as well as religious studies) and love to compare and contrast and debate about it are highly analytical minds--in this way logical and mathmatical--but it's applied differently. I mean, philosophy of logic is both a math and a philosophy course (college level, really), and it deals mostly with word/logic problems--so it's largely english in the sense of forming functional rhetorical arguments.
this means, then, that she may have a natural aptitude for math if it comes in the form of logic or word problems, rather than as a series of numbers and lines on the page--know what i mean? this then requires a different way of teaching and learning math--which most kids don't get in a school scenario because they're not one-on-one. As you well know, your daughter has the opportunity to learn this in her own way--unfortunately not necessarily in her own time.
have you researched or considered 'unschooling' techniques at this level? A lot of people your daughter's age do well with autodidact-styled educational forms. it's very popular in the home-schooling situations here. Some start it in the pre-school age, and others bring it in once the kid reaches the teen-age years. it has some interesting philosophy/theory of eduction including the idea that if the individual follows his/her interests and learns how to learn and teach him/her self, then when s/he decides it's time to learn X, Y, or Z topic, then they'll have the skills to teach themselves.
It's a theory that i like in a general sense, but i also think it can get out of hand. Some parents can be too lenient--not giving their children clear goals in regards to this autodidactic form of education. i think there needs to be a balance if this is the approach taken.
but for me, working from logical/word problems were a lot more fun than working from straight problems. So perhaps you can find a system for that. She's still pre-algebra, so i'll see what i can find in the materials floating around the larger home-schooling communities around here. | |
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Zoebird,
Thanks but we are really okay. This is NOT a problem. I am only saying these things having fun when Tourist brought up the Math deal. Kristina is fine where she is at in learning. I have a homeschool consultant that I work with in regard to the curriculum that I use and choose every school year. My daughter is actually in a private school, with me being the hired teacher and performing my duties in the home setting. It's what is called a Satellite Umbrella school. So, she is monitored very closely and is right on target where she needs to be. The frustration with fractions that she is having is very normal for a child her age and it's very normal for me as a teacher to be experiencing this with her as well. Don't worry about seeking out homeschool stuff for me. I am using one of the top curriculum resources available, whose quality over surpasses the private and public school systems. Everything is perfectly fine. She will get through this and it doesn't matter because I am still one or two years away from pre-algebra. Besides, I limit myself to other curriculum and methods because it can be overwhelming and confusing when you got too many pans in the fire, per se. I keep my classroom very simple.
One of the neat things about homeschooling is that I have an opportunity to make sure my daughter really understands and can apply what she has learned...which is different than the school setting because she does get the one on one - every day. The kids today cannot do the Math that well. This is where parents do not have patience and give up where teaching is concerned. I really didn't mean to mis-lead you into thinking that I was having trouble in this area, because I am not. I am only playing around with this forum. My job as a teacher is very serious. This was my committment 4 years ago when I started. However, I do things my own way using the methods that were taught to me by my teachers. I've got my bases covered so to speak and I have all the necessary resources available to me that gives my daughter the quality education that I want her to have, in lieu of private and public schools that she would have to attend to on a daily basis.
Thanks again for your concern though. If you want to stop by and play with fractions, we are here drinking chai and having a typical school day. Cya later, | |
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| Another one of my online "friends" does this sort of home-schooling as well--what you describe. but they call it 'satellite' instead of umbrella. I like the names for these things.
I understand about not wanting to fuss with a curriculum. there are a lot of theories and ideas and materials out there, which is why i'm taking the time to observe, question, and research. I think that home schooling is a great opportunity for kids--particularly if the parents CAN do it and are willing to do it.
I think that you really hit the nail on the head regarding the benefit of home schooling. i was always working well above grade level as a kid and this caused a lot of social friction or complete scholastic boredom. If i was in a mixed class (as i was for one year), the kids my age wouldn't hang out with me because i was working at an advanced level. The kids with whom i worked (a grade level ahead) would tease me and bully me because i was 'little' or younger. It made going to school tough. When we switched school districts and classes were leveled out, i was often bored in the classroom because i was an 'advanced' student and the teacher taught to the median learners in the room. So, i'd get frustrated.
I find that home schooled kids who are intellegent and eager to learn (regardless of topic) tend to do very well. THeir parents can help them learn and the kids can advance as they need to--working above levels in areas that interest them (wanting to work ahead) and also keeping them at level in the areas where their interests wane a bit. I've found that this is probably one of the greatest benefits to the kids.
But, even better, i think, is the fact that the kid gets a lot of personalized interaction and demonstration of how to simply live. I do not find that children have a lot of life skills--because those aren't taught in schools. In my experience, school is mostly about teaching people to stand in line, be quiet, and do what you're told. Home schooled kids tend to be taught how to discover their interests, develop mastery and applications, and integrate learning into their everyday lives.
This is one of many reasons why i find homeschooling so exciting and i like to hear of other people's experiences of it. Sure, there are methods and curricula that i think are hogwash, but there are others that are great because they are specially tailored to individual learning style and interests and really teach kids to enjoy life-long learning rather than dreading going to school and regurgitating information for a grade. know what i mean?
anyway, sorry for any confusion. i just like to learn from other's experiences. i emailed a friend about the topic and she said that she can't get her son (who is 14) away from math and into humanities. She's 'struggling' more or less in the opposite direction. He spends all of his time engineering--building little robots that do odd little things, though he did build her a 'roomba'-type vaccum for her birthday. it's bigger than a 'roomba' but she likes it because he figured out how to make one. She'd just like him to say--read a book or write an essay--without complaint. but supposedly, this is normal for her type of kid at his age too. LOL So, if you have any way to encourage him to read, let us know! LOL (he does read all manner of math, physics, and engineering type books, but not nice, fun literature).
I also bet your daughter is really intellegent as well as being more gung ho about other topics. intellegent kids often avoid things that they consider 'busy work'--even if they know that they haven't mastered the topic yet. I remember this behavoir in myself. LOL i still exhibit it.
Unfortunately, NC is a bit of a drive for me, so i won't be able to join you for fractions--though i would, because i think that anything around algebra (pre and algebra 2) is the most fun and applicable to everyday life. i use algebra constantly. | |
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I think that all children have some special area that they are more interested in vs. other subjects. This is why I like the montessori and waldorf school methods because they tend to find the area that the child likes does well in, and then let's them pursue their interest in the area they are suited for.
By saying that, your friend really shouldn't worry about reading with her son. If he can read math problems, general instructions, and is functioning on a basic reading level in the math he obviously likes and does well in, he's not going to have a problem with reading. He may have a problem when it comes time for taking test regarding English, things such as nouns, pronouns, writing essay's...if he is lacking in that area, but he may pass general reading comprehension very nicely. Kristina if given a test on fractions at this very moment, would fail it. But, that is okay, because we haven't mastered the subject yet. She would however do well on most everything else. Your friend's child will get his reading in his engineering books and his Mother should be thrilled that he has found his niche. She should relax about it and let him do his thing and not force the other. This is called allowing his creativity to shine. No way would my daughter be interested in what your friend's child is into. BUT, she loves Literature. We are studying Greek Mythology right now. One of the best piece's of advice I got from my Mother in law who is a Teacher and Librarian by profession, and her husband is a retired school superintentant. They told me that if my child could read, they could do anything they wanted to do. It didn't matter which subject, just read - period. I never forgot that and is the reason I let my daughter choose her material and let the chips fall where they may - without force or pressure, too much anyway Normal schools will not allow this concept and is why they have so many failing and unhappy, unwilling students.
One thing you have to remember is that college and schools are totally different. School is about tests and whether you can pass them or not. It's about meeting the state's criteria and all that BS. College is where you really begin to learn because it is a different type of setting for learning and the teachers are generally happy with their salaries and want to teach. Usually the students are thrilled and overwhelmingly happy that they are out of the school prison. Homeschooling is a combination of both. As a homeschool teacher I have to make sure she is *getting it* so that she can pass those general exams such as the SAT and ACT. (I have several years to prepare for this and I'm NOT under pressure). This is where our pressure is (if at all later in high school) and where the school's pressure is as well. It's so unfortunate and believe it or not, yes, you are right about HS being able to develop their interests and creativity...BUT, we have to double our work because we have to be able to shine in the outside world with those silly stupid SAT/ACT tests later on that really don't prove a dam thing. HS kids are pulling a double load not only in that area, but in the work being done in general and learning life skills too. The good news is that we work at our own pace and we get to rest and sleep more than other children do. We don't have to run around in the wee hours of the morning trying to catch a bus so she can sit in a lunchroom for 2 hours before school starts, then to have a long afternoon of 2 hours or 3 waiting to get home. Our time is spent wisely and we are efficient in time management. This is where the true benefit is. | |
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| that time management thing is so true.
my friend isn't really worried about her son. he does actually read literature when he 'feels like it' and it's mostly things like The Lord of the Rings and what not--so he's got a decent reading level and of course he understands the math stuff.
a lot of the HS high schoolers around here go to alternative colleges--international baccelaureate programs, alternative universities (where you don't necessarily take the ACT/SAT--and i agree that the tests are silly), and some go to regular colleges and universities. For me, college was a huge high school do-over pain-in-my-you-know-what because most of the kids came unprepared to learn on their own. the home schooled kids (and myself because i was bored in school and spent most of my time in the library anyway) knew how to do this--and manage time efficiently.
you are a number of years from the ACT/SAT stuff, but i would highly recommend a Kaplan class. I know it seems nuts, but a friend of mine teaches for kaplan. He says that all of these tests--ACT, SAT, MCAT, GRE, G-MAT, L-SAT etc--they're all about understanding how to take a test, not really about what you know. I took one as a crash before my L-SAT because i didn't plan on going to law school until the 11th hour. Then, i only had one opportunity to take the LSAT and it was something like 8 weeks away from when i decided to go to law school. So, i took the class that started one week later (7 weeks prior to the exam).
they taught really dumb stuff like "fill in the circles with a dull pencil, it takes less time than using a sharp pencil. So, bring 5 or 6 dull pencils and an eraser for the test." it's amazing the little things that they teach that do work to save time and get you to the next question. They teach about how to make an 'educated guess' that is right 90% of the time by understanding how the test is formatted and all of that. It's crazy. When i took the L-SAT, in many cases i skimmed the questions and then did the kaplan process of test taking. i got a 154 which is a high-middle score and got me into two good schools (with crappy grades).
i know it's a ways off for her and certainly encourage her to master this stuff for high school, but consider having her take a kaplan class (i think they also offer the books for sale, so that you don't have to try to find the class) before she takes the tests (what 5-6 years from now?). I'm sure she'll do fine though either way.
i think the worst pressure in schools right now are these averages that are connected to funding? i can't remember what they're called--but they test the students continually and the higher the students score, the more money the school gets for supplies and stuff. teachers are complaining that the problem si that they're not educating for the purpose of education or mastery. now, they're just teaching whta's on the test. it's really tragic!
Greek Mythology is great. I was just engaging the persephone story from the perspective of the baubo goddess myth last week. it was fascinating.
Edited by zoebird 2005-12-12 4:21 PM
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Location: canada | what i always wanted to know about homeschooling is how do you make up for the lack of interaction that your kids would have gotten with other kids in a traditional school setting? that is every bit as important as what they're actually learning. | |
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | fechter03 - 2005-12-12 9:14 PM
what i always wanted to know about homeschooling is how do you make up for the lack of interaction that your kids would have gotten with other kids in a traditional school setting? that is every bit as important as what they're actually learning.
Lack of interaction of what??? Let's see, lack of interaction of children on drugs, lack of interaction of children who are abused and neglected, lack of interaction of children who's parent's have no time for them at home, lack of interaction with children who are aggressive and competitive to the extreme, lack of interaction with children who bully, lack of interaction of children who sneak around and have dishonest behavior...this list goes on.
Then you have children who are nurtured and cared for on a daily, minute by minute basis, children who have parents that know every detail and participate in every detail of their lives, children who have exceptional role models around them every waking moment, children who are not afraid of adults and can have an intelligent conversations with them, children who get to travel and see the real world because they are not bogged down to a organized school's schedule, children who are super intelligent and who are allowed to be creative and express themselves in a free environment, children who make responsible decisions about their lives whatever they may choose, children who do have limited social interaction that is closely monitored by their parents and have chosen the proper elements and quality outside activities to interact with and be involved with and where, children who are happy and content to be in any social setting because they are extremely happy and content with their lives and not striving to find themselves due to lack of all of the above in the first paragraph....should I go on or do you get the point yet???
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Zoebird, you'll have to remind me of the Kaplan class in about 4 or 5 more years, OKAY? | |
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| I agree with Lance. BTW, people will all those problems exist in the real world. It's better that your child get used to dealing with them early rather than late. | |
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | That's BS GJ.
I don't have to subject my child to all those problems if I choose not to. Why would I want her to get used to those kinds of problems?? I don't want my child in that kind of environment...nor do I want to put up with it. Been there and done it once and will never do it again. Sorry, but I'm NOT responsible for other peoples f'dkd up lives and I don't have to subject my child to it either. Going out to the mall, or grocery store or anywhere in public is enough in itself to see what the world is like and how to interact in it. At least she has a role model to follow in how to deal with these kinds of situations.
FYI, in school, children are NOT being directed and guided by adults and teachers. They are being directed and guided by other children who are lost in a sea of dispair. It's the blind leading the blind. At least I have awareness and am guided by spiritual principals when it comes to making decisions...NOBODY is going to rob me of giving my daughter the very best education and experience. My daughter spends her entire summers at the same summer camp that she and her brother have been attending for over 10 years, my son is on the staff there. She also has plenty of outside interests with just enough time to get her schoolwork and task done on a daily basis. There is no time for any BS and/or f'ckd up children for social purposes. You would not believe how many children are envious and want to be in my school or a setting like we have...children hate school and are miserable. This is the reason our society has so many problems with children. IF, you think I'm going to contribute and allow those people to raise and influence my child....you're crazy. I already gave up one child to the system and he barely made it through and is in college now.
Edited by Cyndi 2005-12-13 9:51 AM
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| What is she going to do when she works under somebody like that, or has to deal with them as a fellow worker?
I can understand your problems with the school system, most of them are far from perfect, but I also don't think people should be raised in "perfect" environments. They end up being too sheltered from the problems of life, and can't deal with the occasional storm.
Edited by GreenJello 2005-12-13 10:51 AM
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | This is where you and I will disagree majorly and where I am going to NOT discuss this with you that much further. I don't have to justify myself to people like you and this is why we are in America, it's called Freedom. My environment is by no means perfect, we deal with very real life situations, if you can't understand that...then it's people like you that are part of the problem and not the solution. You don't have to be forced or placed into the extreme ugly environment to be able to interact in it. In fact, you have a better advantage when you have a sense of well being about yourself when having to deal with difficult or challenging situations. Kinda like Yoga. When you are balanced and well fed you can deal with just about anything. I want my child to develop good, strong habits now so that when she does go out into the world, she will be strong and unaffected by diversity and "problems", therefore, she will make good decisions in her daily interactions or whatevers. The crap that goes on in school is not teaching, is not learning...it's like I said before, a Sea of Despair. Thanks but NO Thanks. | |
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Location: canada | cyndi, why are you acting like that?? no one is judging you. i asked a question, and got an answer, GJ gave an opinion, and that's all it is. | |
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | That's good. I am not acting like anything. I'm also stating some issues as well that I have with that mentality that GJ is borderlining with me about. You should be aware that us homeschooling parents have had to literally fight for our rights to do what we do - I mean really fight tooth and nail and stay on top of laws and regulations, blah blah. You have no idea what the process is about and what goes on in our society. So, if I seem a little on the edgy side, that is why. Besides, we are always having to undue all the BS and propaganda that our brainwashing government & society would like for you to believe about people like us. One of the few things I like about GWB is that he is a homeschool supporter and works closely with the HSLDA which I happen to be associated with.
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| cyndi:
i'll remember when you start mentioning that you're prepping her for the act/sat and then i'll remind you. i promise. | |
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| what i always wanted to know about homeschooling is how do you make up for the lack of interaction that your kids would have gotten with other kids in a traditional school setting? that is every bit as important as what they're actually learning.
I think that there is a common misconception that home schooled children rarely, if ever, spend time with other children. This is simply not the case--unless the family as a whole lives a far cry from other families.
In my area (which is largely small towns and suburban sprawl), there are large homeschooling organizations that offer organized sports that play within the public school league, various clubs (or kids are allowed to join clubs through the local public school if there aren't enough home-schooled kids interested in forming an independent club), and there are also 'co-schooling' opportunities. These 'co-schooling' opportunities are things such as group hiking trips that have an educational focus (botany, environmental sciences, etc--usually age leved out). Parents attend with their children or certain poarents chaperone and the whole group goes on an engagement.
Children also have other opportunities to be with other children--such as social outtings that the parents choose and so on. this is not much different than parents choosing schools really--when they can choose schools. they're simply choosing the social interaction and the level of interaction that they want for their children.
I'll also tell you why my parents ALMOST homeschooled me, and why i really wish they had. When i was 9, i moved from California to Arkansas. This move was not difficult for me initially--i was excited about the opportunity to meet new people and make new friends. but, it didn't work out the way that i'd hoped.
My mother tells me that when i came home from school on the first day, i asked her "where are all the other children?" and she asked me "what do you mean?" and I said, "there are white children and there are black children. Where are all the other children?" she realized that my previous school experience had been more ethnicly diverse and that i was reacting to that (not necessarily negatively).
I went to school and i tried to make friends with both black and white kids. My memory of california is vague, admittedly, but the pictures of 'me and my friends' at my birthday party before we moved (i was 9) showed a really diverse crowd--black, white, hispanic, asian, and arabic.
By trying to make friends with black children, i was unknowingly entering into a HUGE social faux pas. I also tried to make friends with children from diverse socio-economic groups--and that 'just wasn't done' either. This caused a lot of social friction.
Also, i was the 'new kid' and so this means that i got picked on. I was horribly picked on--in front of the teacher, told the teacher about it, etc--for a very long time. By 6th grade, i would pretend to be sick just to avoid being picked on. At this point, my parents considered taking me out of school because my "interaction that [you] would have gotten with other kids in a traditional school setting" was not emotionally safe for me. teachers and administrators were not willing to make any sort of change either to make it safe for me.
unfortunately, my parents did not take my out of school because they believed (sadly) that they wouldn't be able to provide me with an appropriate education. I think this is highly illogical as my dad has a PhD in the sciences and my mom, while not degreed, is equally brilliant. Of course they could have handled my education. And, i still would have had extra curricular activities (like softball, sunday school, and other activites where kids didn't make fun of me) where i could get "social interaction."
I think that this would have been better for me emotionally--i do have some pretty major battle scars from that situation. Today, it still causes a great deal of trouble and i have difficulty trusting 'new friends' and therefore making 'new friends.' I work hard on this emotional scarring--to release the shame and fear and work to be appropriately open and also maintain appropriate boundaries.
So, the concerns about children not getting enough social interaction from homeschooling is easily solved by being involved with other families and other children through the myriad of activities available for these children. the concern about children getting hurtful or the wrong kinds of social interaction that they do get from school is avoided. | |
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| cyndi,
i completely agree with this:
I don't have to subject my child to all those problems if I choose not to. Why would I want her to get used to those kinds of problems??
not to mention the fact that if you teacher her to be herself and follow her inner wisdom and creativity, she'll know how to respond to 'those kinds of problems and situations' appropriately and with dignity, grace, and creativity.
At least, this is my experience with kids who are homeschooled in this area. a number of kids who work and play at the rock gym are home schooled kids. At 14-17, they are often more mature and capable than their schooled teammates. The still have the sense of youth and playfulness--and heck, they're fun and i can see the 'teen-ness' in them (that thing that they do that makes they're mothers a little crazy! LOL)--so they're every bit normal--but they're amazing in their capacity to handle conflict with confidence and grace as well as to ask for help when they need it, offer help before it's asked for, and really avoid bad situations.
Edited by zoebird 2005-12-13 3:13 PM
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Location: canada | well, where i'm from we're not allowed to homeschool so i was just fascinated with the concept once i got to the US and i've been impressed. the homeschooled kids i've interacted with didn't seem to be lacking in anyway. this is why i was trying to learn more about the methods. | |
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Location: canada | Cyndi - 2005-12-13 1:54 PM
Besides, we are always having to undue all the BS and propaganda that our brainwashing government & society would like for you to believe about people like us.
well, cyndi, i don't believe or form an opinion about anything until i experience it  | |
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Expert Yogi
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Fechter,
You're absolutely right, Homeschooling is not allowed in many countries. The bottom line is about government control. I decided 4 years ago that I could do much better than what the school was doing for my child. It was heartbreaking for me to send my children to a public school. Later on, I sent my daughter to a very expensive private school that cost me to the tune of $20,000 annually, not to mention the expensive uniforms that they were required to wear. After 2 years of that and moving to the mountains is when I made the BIG decision. Prior to that, I lived in a nice suburban neighborhood where there were lots of children, and some were homeschooled. I used to observe my daughter playing with this one particular HS child. She used to amaze me and I always felt terrible after being around her and talking to her Mother. The reason I felt terrible was because this child had everything I wanted for my child but could not giver her because I sent her off to school every day while I stayed at home cleaning house and basically not doing what I really wanted to do, waiting for her to get off the school bus. I then decided to take my own life in my hands, told everyone to shove it and did what I felt was right in my heart. I never looked back and I'm so happy today with my choices. Sure, I had to undo all of the things I ever was taught and I had to make up my own system that worked for both of us. It was extremely disorganized the first year, but I gave myelf allowances and I didn't push myself. It is the most wonderful feeling in the world, KNOWING that I had complete control over my life and my family. Everything just fell right into place and clicked in.
There are over 2 million HSer's in America..probably more. The trend is growing. Other countries are starting to sit up and take notice and are wanting to do the same. Parent's like me are fed up with the system and we are fed up with their crap. We want more than what they can offer us and we want our freedom to come and go, do what we know is best. It's also about parent's being allowed to be creative as well. FYI, for every Homeschooler, each school loses about $7,000 a year per student, from federal funding. So, it's also about money too! That's the other reason they hate us.
Anyway, sorry Zoebird, looks like your thread was hijacked...but I figured since you were actively participating you didn't seem to mind,
If ya'll want to learn more about homeschooling. Go to http://www.hslda.org there is a ton of articles and information there. | |
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| when you say 'methods' do you mean the methods of how kids get the social interaction that they need or do you mean the actual 'methods' of home schooling? both sets of methods are really diverse.
but, you also have to understand that homeschooler's are diverse. Some people do homeschool for the wrong reasons, but most homeschool for the right reasons. To me, the wrong reasons are fear of the outside world, excessive religiousity, and a desire to smother or control the child. The right reasons are those that are based in the best interests of the child.
one of my friends homeschooled her son for 6 months before she realized that she couldn't handle it. her eldest son goes to a waldorf school (they have a specific theory of education and learning). when she signed her youngest son up for kindergarden, everything was fine for about 4 weeks. Then, the school did some testing and realized that they were not equipped to meet his specialized needs.
her son has reactive-attachment disorder and struggles with certain behavoirs and mental problems (she doesn't like to use the term 'mental illness' but that's 'technically' what he has). She thought that she would do waldorf-styled home schooling to give her son the personalized educational attention that he needed--as that's what both the school, and her own, therapists recommended for him.
After 6 months, she realized that she couldn't handle working both his therapeutic needs AND his educational needs. She hired an education advocate and a lawyer, and brought in her own therapist, to the public school system and utilitzed the 'no child left behind' laws to get her son the education that he needs.
So, sometimes, it's important to note that homeschooling isn't for everyone and that my friend needed the help that the school could give her and her son. But, homeschooling can be great for those who are willing and able to do it in the child's best interest.
That's what education should be anyway--in the student's best interest. | |
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Location: canada | zoebird, i agree with both yours and cyndi's reasons for homeschooling and yes, when i said "methods" i meant the interaction with other kids; cyndi outlined the homeschooling requirements from the educational standpoint. | |
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Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hey Fechter,
Are you looking for an outline from another standpoint now?? I'll give you a health standpoint if you want. Like, my daughter doesn't get sick all the time and eats really healthy lunches. We don't have stress in our lives like most working class families do. If we don't feel like doing Math today, we do something else. We go with the flow in a relaxing harmonious environment. I mean like how many kids do you know, know how to cook, clean, wash dishes, do their own laundry - correctly, can give a 100+ lb. Rottweiler a bath, has seen a cat birth kittens multiple times and then watch them grow up together, can weed a garden, open a beehive, hike a tall mountain, ride horses and then muck their stalls, recognize birds and trees in nature by name, bake cakes, make chocolate truffles, homemade pizza - healthy pizza, the list goes on. | |
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Extreme Veteran
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Location: canada | well, cyndi, sounds like you have all the bases covered to say the least and yeah, the food at schools tend to be really crappy. that is one thing you CAN avoid altogether. | |
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| Cyndi you are to be commended for educating your child at home. You're doing the right thing for your family and I think it's great | |
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