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| I have been told that Yoga is not good for someone with weak pelvic floor muscles. I have mild bladder prolapse. Recently started doing yoga and love it. I have been doing some type of exercise almost all my life. Realizing that aerobics is not the best thing for pelvic floor muscles I moved to the relaxing stretching of yoga. I must admit in a short time I am able to do most poses without too much problem but am now concerned about damaging my pelvic floor muscles further. Anyone else have any problems with this or suggestions? Thanks.
Edited by newtoyoga 2004-08-29 4:50 PM
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| Please see my answer below with all points:
1. The suggestion you got is Actually Wrong, but in one way correct.
2. It is correct in the sense that if you do all Yoga Poses as taught in the Books or an Inexperienced Yoga Teacher, it can harm your health. Also, if you are an aggressive or competitive mentality, many times found in the modern world, then also you can harm yourself.
3. But, in the fact, considering your situation, and in a factual sense, Yoga is the BEST and ONLY correct exercise for you. Because, in real Yoga Exercise, you focus your mind inside yourself, watch all parts for ability etc. and then adjust your pose to your own requirements. If you do this, then YOGA is the only best exercise for you.
4. Now, you need to learn this from an Experienced Source and also in Person so that the person can watch you while doing.
I wish you all the best.
neel kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org | |
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| Yes, You must avoid some streneous yoga asanas. For weak pelvic floor muscle, please try Sahajoli kriya in Butterfuly Pose or Vajrasana i.e. Kegel's exercise for PC muscle - highly beneficial for females.
Good Luck and take care,
mangalkrishna
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| I recently had a letter to the editor of Yoga International published on this subject. I will copy it here, because it reveals a little-known secret about Yoga’s ability to prevent and minimize pelvic floor prolapse.
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Piel doesn't like advertising. | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
 
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Hi Jonathan,
That's an interesting concept and as I agree with this - I enjoyed the website. The question now is...How do you squat on a toilet?? I haven't mastered that one yet!! 
Seriously, when I go hiking in the woods and/or camping, this is how we do it. I always felt my sense of being totally alive and well was partly due to having this type of elimination (squatting in the woods) and plus all the exercise that you get from being in the great outdoors and back to nature.
Also, in my husband's culture in Nepal, this is how it is done...and you take along a bottle of water to wash up with instead of paper. Funny, the Nepalis people think we Americans are dirty with our toilet paper habits, which is why in certain temples in Nepal, Americans are not allowed in them because of their dirty "butts",  | |
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| Hello newtoyoga,
You getting great advice from the above posters. Yoga is EXCELLENT for pelvic muscles. I agree with Neel about finding an excellent, well trained teacher. In other words - The Real Deal! | |
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| Cyndi - 2005-10-31 1:03 PM The question now is...How do you squat on a toilet?? I haven't mastered that one yet!!
If you look at the rest of the site they have a platform that they're selling to help you with this. Unfortunately, this undermines the rest of the posters comments, since it appears that this is an attempt to push their dubious merchanise. (The platform looks really rickety) I'm glad you said something or I would have dismissed the whole thing out of hand. Now I'm going to at least try it once or twice.
It also occurs to me that traditional Japanese toilets are also glorified holes in the floor to allow people to squat. OTOH, I've also heard that westernization is starting to cause these to disappear.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | Well GJ, I was replying in a "natural" way...I didn't realize that it was an ad, heehee. It really would be hard to stand/squat on a toilet seat. Perhaps we should call this a Toiletasana,
Frankly, I'd rather just go out and and be like a bear and $hit in the woods, It just gets mighty cold up here in the mountains for that and you city people would get put in jail for eliminating on the streets, | |
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| I don't know, Green Jello. That device looks kind of neato. I've been using a footstool which is much more comfortable to me than not having one. The thing with off-the-wall devices is that it's weird for visitors, like in-laws who already might think you-know-who is weird.
One other downside of that device is what if I fall off in the middle of the night?
I like the hole in the floor. To tell the truth, I'd like a beday (not sure how to write it in French) in my bathroom. And heated tiles on the floor.... | |
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| *Fifi* - 2005-10-31 3:34 PMI don't know, Green Jello. That device looks kind of neato. I've been using a footstool which is much more comfortable to me than not having one. The thing with off-the-wall devices is that it's weird for visitors, like in-laws who already might think you-know-who is weird.
Supposedly you can fold it up, and move it. (And everybody I know already thinks I'm weird, how much worse can it get?)
One other downside of that device is what if I fall off in the middle of the night? I like the hole in the floor.
This is what worries me the most, I'm pushing 225-250 lbs, so I'm more likely to break the durned thing in the middle of the night, and end up with some sort of injury than you more petite ladies.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 5098
Location: Somewhere in the Mountains of Western NC | I like the footstool idea too Fifi, then you can use it as a magazine table for the bathroom when *strangers* are present. As for the hole in the floor, Beday and heated floors - absolutely, I have had this design in my head for years...now I'm just trying to figure out how to build it. I want an outdoor shower too!! | |
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| outdoor showers --- yes! | |
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| Suggestion to Original Question of newtoyoga:
1. First let us know or at least note yourself, the method you came to know that your pelvic floor is weak.
2. Now do Yoga for a month or two regularly within your limits without overdoing it.
3. Then apply the method in 1. and find whether you are worse off or better.
4. 3. shall answer your question immediately.
Best Luck
Neel Kulkarni
www.authenticyoga.org | |
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| Cyndi, whatever you do don't squat on the loo. We had a rash of bad accidents at work here shortly after we took on some new staff who were from a culture where this posture was the norm for elimination. After our health and safety folk investigated, we found the only way to break our loo seats was by squatting on them.
I think it would be interesting to find out if any company has taken this on board and produces a loo that's both squat friendly and meets the usual expectations on bathroom fittings in the west.
Fee | |
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| Orbilia - 2005-11-01 5:25 AMI think it would be interesting to find out if any company has taken this on board and produces a loo that's both squat friendly and meets the usual expectations on bathroom fittings in the west.Fee
I don't think it would be hard. Essentially all you would need is something on either side of the bowl to stand on. So, if they built a shelf or something with the top coming out, it would probably be perfect.
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| I can see that in my mind but I think it may not work for the older, stiffer user? I wondered if anyone had actually taken to producing something that didn't involve a large step up but was more, 'erm 'hygenic' than a hole in the bathroom floor.
Fee
Edited by Orbilia 2005-11-01 9:54 AM
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| I can't believe Green Jello weighs between 225 - 250 lbs. You must be very tall, GJ. I looked out your photo and you're certainly not fat!
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| Orbilia- Yeah, maybe some sort of step on either side would be nicer for old folks.
*Fifi* - 2005-11-01 12:11 PMI can't believe Green Jello weighs between 225 - 250 lbs. You must be very tall, GJ. I looked out your photo and you're certainly not fat!
Thanks!
I'm very dense. One part of our high school phys-ed final was floating in the pool for 5 minutes. Just float, that's it. I had to fight to keep from drowning, since my legs kept pulling me down. I also have a bit of a pot belly, which is going away, and very thick thighs.
Anyway, I'm 6'2" and 225 lbs. Oddly enough I had no idea what I weighted or how tall I was until about 3-4 weeks ago. Then the doctor insisted on tell me, and I was forced to buy a suit. Now everybody seems interested.... Odd.
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
  
| GJ - my DH is a sinker, too. He laughs when my feet float around in the hot tub. The best thing in triathlon for him was the introduction of wetsuits, which offer a bit of floatation | |
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| I am new to the site, new to the yoga and new to dealing with my collapsed pelvic floor.
I am 19 years old and the doctors still haven't found a reason for my pevlic floor muslces failing me and my multiple prolapses...
I am interested in starting yoga, and I read some of your posts regarding what do to and what not to do, but I am looking for a little more insite.
I guess I still don't completely understand my condtion, which makes it hard for me to know what are healthy positions and what are not.
Any suggestions, or even just some support would be awesome.. I'm having a really rough time with all this... 
Glad I've found some ppl who can relate...
Thanks
*rach* | |
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| pixy 19:
You need a mix of a) consultation with an experienced Surgeon in the area of your issue. b) experienced Yoga Teacher who knows your issue from your consultation with Surgeon and then can help you. c) patience and dedication to overcome or reduce the issue.
Fortunately, you are young at age.
Neel Kulkarni
http://www.authenticyoga.org | |
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| pixy 19:
You need a mix of a) consultation with an experienced Surgeon in the area of your issue. b) experienced Yoga Teacher who knows your issue from your consultation with Surgeon and then can help you. c) patience and dedication to overcome or reduce the issue.
Fortunately, you are young at age.
Neel Kulkarni
http://www.authenticyoga.org | |
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| Thank you!
I have had alot of tests, and I have many more booked in the new year, followed by surgury in the spring. I guess they have to see what they can do for me.
Finding an experienced yoga teacher around here will be hard, considering I am living in the middle of no where, but I will find one, even if it means driving to the city. From what you guys are saying.. it's worth it.
Thanks again..
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Location: London, England | Hi everybody,
Sorry to always seem to so contrary, but my understanding is that squatting is not suitable for westerners at all. According to Sapsford et al (Women's health-a textbook for physiotherapists) it screws up the ano-rectal angle and actually inhibits good defaecation. What's good for a person from the east is not good for a person from the west. I believe this is due to tightness in the calf muscles. My recommendation is not to try to overcome this, and to not advise anyone else to do the same. By advising the lady who posted the query to squat, you may have assisted her, and others with the same problem, to get into an even deeper physical mess-please desist from offering advice unless you are medically trained-it is very dangerous to mess around with other peoples health
Nick | |
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Expert Yogi
Posts: 8442
| Well, she could wear heels  I think there is a vast oversimplification here. I would hate to presume to know the tightness of an individual's calves by their geographical location. Knowing options is always good and one could make choices depending on what works best for their body. | |
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Location: London, England | Hi Tourist,
Wouldn't wearing heels make clambering around on the toilet even more dangerous that people have already said?
I appreciate what you are saying about not being able to make statements about populations in different geographical locations, but you can make generalized observations. Once again according to Sapsford: 'Squatting positionsvary from East to West.Note the different lumbar spine positions, occuring with limited tendo-achilles extensibility. The flexed spine does not facilitate rectal emptyng.' When you see most Westerners attempt a squatting position (and i have personally never witnessed anyone who is an exception to this rule in twenty years of yoga teaching) they will flextheir spines. Whether one decides to sit or squat, it is important to keep a straight spine and flex at the pelvis. This helps to control the descent of the pelvic floor and enables us to use the diaphragm muscle to aid defaecation. The position should allow the abdominal wall to bulge-when you see most people squat, the abdominal wall contracts and hollows, resulting in the diaphragm being too high and losing its functional status. This also causes the abnormal descent of the pelvic floor, which can be greater than 2-3 cm-advising a patient with a bladder prolapse to squat can then be seen to be a very misguided piece of advice, which could go drastically wrong for the patient.
Secondly, straining at defaecation has been shown to be be a causative factor in prolapse, and a faulty body position does not help. One of the best pieces of advice we can give to women is to use a footstall about 10-15 cm high. Young girls should not be encouraged to use the toilet without a footstall, which will then encourage them to have good posture and encourage abdominal bracing and proper descent of the pelvic floor muscles. Forward pelvic tilting(which does not tend to happen in the western style squat) will encourage the defaecation process.
How do we rehabilitate the pelvic floor?
In all effort activities-cough, lift, push, drag, sneeze and nose blow, pelvic floor muscle (PFM) suppport is required. In occupations where heavy lifting is the norm, the PFM are overloaded (yoga, for instance). Moola bandha is a technique whereby the PFM are strengthened in order to counter increased loads. Alternative methods of supporting the pelvic floor are to utilize and strengthen the transversus abdominus and internal oblique abdominals which can activate the anterior levator support, whilst activating TrA and the internal and external obliques can activate the posterior levator support. The two methods of abdominal contraction described above are known as abdominal hollowing and abdominal bracing respectively.
I thought it might be interesting to look at a cat-the sneezing pattern has been adapted from animal function, most notably the cat. The cat's tail acts as the insertion for its levator muscles. The cat uses its tail as reinforcement during sneezing. The tial is wrapped around the cat's body as the animal sits to sneeze. The cat braces, closes its glottis, and uses its existing lung capacity prior to exhaling. As the cat releases the brace, it creates a valve with the tongue moving away from the roof of the mouth. Sounds like ujjayi breathing and bandha!
Humans make three errors-they inhale deeply at the first warning of a sneeze, they vocalize the sneeze, and they do not attempt to utilize the PFM or the abdominal muscles. This results in a downward thrust on the PFM which may result in loss of continence or even prolapse. Squeeze before you sneeze!! In order to sneeze properly, brace the abdominal muscles as the 'id' sound is made, and 'choo' as the diaphragm contracts forcefully to expel the air.
Thought it may be useful to look at a real life situation rather than one which we are manufacturing-our yoga practice. | |
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Location: London, England | Dear Jonathon108
I don't know where you got your information from regarding correct defaecation patterns-as I stated in my last post, the pelvic floor is supposed to descend-if it remained tight you could not defaecate. You also discourage the valsalva maneuvre-but defaecation is one of the activities that the valsalva maneuvre is designed to make easier. You also mention pelvic floor prolpase-I have never heard of this-do you mean bladder or uterine prolapse? You also say that a third of women have a hysterectomy-where do you get this figure from? And where do you get the statement 'almost all men develop prostate problems'? And the statement 'the pelvic floor descends over time' -where do you get this information? I am very interested because all of the above disputes everything that I have learnt on the human body, and so I would love to check out your sources-one of us has been barking up the wrong tree, which is a bit perturbing for me because it menas i have just wasted a decade, so I hope it's you who's barking and not me!
Take care
Nick | |
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Location: London, England | Hi Pixy 19
Can I ask you what form your symptoms take? do you suffer from bed-wetting, 'giggle incontinence,' urgency? Is the prolapse of the bladder or uterus? If you would like to you can e-mail me, but it may be educational for people using this site to be involved-also there may be someone who is actually involved in women's health who can back up or dispute what I say. It's up to you. Take care
Nick | |
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| Dear Nick,
I suggest you read the website carefully and check all the references. My letter to Yoga International was vetted by the editorial board before publication. They don't waste valuable space in their highly respected magazine by publishing frivolous or misleading letters.
Squatting is absolutely natural for all human beings, regardless of their racial background. It's as universal as any other aspect of Yoga. The difference between Eastern and Western populations results from different cultural habits, not from anything genetic or anatomical.
You haven't wasted a decade. You've just prepared yourself for the next stage of evolution.
Namaste!
~ Jonathan
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Location: London, England | Dear Jonathon 108,
I went to the website-very interesting, but I would agree with others who have made the observation that it is a commercial site which has a vested interest in us believing the antomical/physiological blueprint that it lays out. The posture that is dispalyed in tne diagram of the person sitting on the toilet is indeed one that would inhibit defaecation-but on the other hand, so is the posture in the diagram of the person squatting. In both instances, the pelvis is tilted posteriorily and the spine is flexed. People should be taught to sit properly on the toilet, to encourage a straight back, correct pelvic tilt, and lengthening from the pubis to the rib cage. Straining should be discouraged.
By slumping on the toilet or in a squatting position, rectus abdominus is shortened which can lead to tightening of puborectalis, and the transversus abdominus may be more difficult to recruit in this position.
Squatting takes our centre of gravity behind our weight-bearing base, making a good body posture very hard to maintain.
Both yoga and ballet share a risk of encouraging women to adopt a posterior pelvic tilt-the squatting position that you encourage is an example of a yoga position which would lead a woman to a tendency to adopt the posterior tilt. This may lead to an uncoordinated defaecation pattern. Swimmers are also at risk as they develop all the abdominopelvic floor muscles. Swimmers and ballerinas are elite athletes who often sustain gross neuropathy during childbirth, as the relveant musculature cannot relax, orhas limited extensibility, during the expulsive phase of childbirth. There is a good chance that we can add woemn yoga practicioners to the list of at risk women, at least if we encourage them to adopt a posterior pelvic tilt, which is demonstrated by the person squatting in the website you recommended. Remember, this is not an attack on you personally, but is really just an attempt to get at the truth-the natures platform website is very beguiling, but at the end of the day makes some glaring anatomical and physiological errors which are unforgivable, as they would bascially screw up a woman's health rather than add to it. Take care
Nick | |
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Location: London, England | To Jonathon 108
Do you not think that it would have been relevant to disclose that you are the inventor of the device being sold on the Nature's platform website? All I had to do was to put your name on a search engine to find out that you took out the patent. One of the members even said that the fact that the website was trying to sell a device which claimed to be able to cure thevarious conditions that were documented on the same site. You failed even then to disclose that you were the inventor. You have been economical with the truth to an extent that I do not wish to have any more discussion with you, kindly refrain from peddling yourself onthis site. The practice of yoga should aim to bring us closer to the truth, and to have people like you does not help.
Dear Newtoyoga,
I am sorry that you have ben targeted by this individual, it is a shame that when some one like you needs help, that people like this see an opportunity to make some cash. My name is Nicholas Porucznik-if any of you want to make sure that i am not trying to peddle my own commercial interests, please do so.
I am sorry for my impatient tone, but I discovered that I thought I was trying to help by using what little knowledge I have, and then found out that the person whom I thought had the same intent had motives which are not entirely altruistic. Once again, I apologise to you all, apart from you, Jonathon Nisbit
Take care
Nick | |
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bladder prolapse/pelvic floor muscles