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| I've practiced Bikram yoga on and off since 2000 (mostly ON this last year), and I'm hooked. I've been away from it for a few months, though, and can't go back until a pinched nerve/muscle issue clears up. (I was certain that the yoga would cure it; it helped, but there is residual trouble that won't go away. Seems the best thing for it now is rest.)
I am seeing a new acupuncturist, and asked him today if I should hold off my return to class until my shoulder/chest/arm/back/neck are back to normal. He and the other practitioner firmly recommended that I choose another kind of yoga entirely. Reason? They say Bikram is not good for women. Something about too much loss of moisture. I'm usually pretty good about replenishing, but can someone help me understand why they might be concerned? I can't imagine that I'll give it up, but I want to stay well-informed regarding all concerns, whether I agree or not.
Thanks! | |
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| In my opinion, that loss of hydration and electrolytes is not gender-specific. Building heat from within is a whole different can of worms than something externally supplied.
Given the fact your inury involves a joint, I'm willing to bet you're not building sonovial fluid before you move into poses that demand much from the joint. Such as Garudasana arms. It stretches the rotator cuff, takes the shoulderblades off the back (straining the rhomboids and subscapulara) , causes the traps to hunch and crunches the chest. Unless it's done with good alignment, but I've never seen a Bikram teacher who might be able to tell me they know what that is. It's not in their training. Since that pose is in the beginning of the Bikram series, I'm willing to bet your body doesn't get enough warm-up. You just start sweating.
I suggest you seek out someone who specializes in Special Conditions to address movement with that arm. They can work in conjunction with your specialist, but given the body parts you've mentioned? I'll bet it's that you're not using yourself correctly. There might even be an imbalance now in your cervical spine causing that pinch. But I'm guessing. 
I really digress. I'm sorry. I suggest you begin to hydrate regularly, rather than just 'replenishing.' That's kind of an after-the-fact way to look at it, since you really can't judge how much you need to replenish. Supply the body with more than it needs beforehand, saturate your tissues and you'll just tinkle out what you don't need. After about 2 weeks of 64 oz a day, you'll stop tinkling every 2 hours and go to a more normal number. Your hydration levels will remain higher, too.
But I don't think anyone with an injury should be doing Bikram. (Again, my opinion.) Most of the time, Ashtanga or frequently Sivananda, either. These are not yoga styles that accommodate for injury or healing.
While your healing, why don't you work with an Iyengar or Anusara teacher? You can still do yoga with something that not only accommodates your injury but can help you learn to move so you can heal it and it and learn how not to reinjure it? This is their training, which can help you enhance your Bikram practice when you return.
I'd be interested to know upon what your acupuncturist bases this gener-specific warning. And why Bikram? He must have gotten it from somewhere!
Christine | |
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| this is just silly!
loss of moisture?
In Bikram Yoga men and women alike: we drink water- we sweat like crazy the body and the skin loves this stuff! If he is referring to vaginal moisture--- (?)
A heightened risk of vaginal yeast infections from prolonged time in wet yoga clothes (like when at teacher training) is the ONLY thing I can think of that is different for women's bodies relating to moisture. But loss of moisture just doesn't ring right to me either.
Instead of quitting Bikram yoga because of some sexist remarks -you might be better off looking for a Chiropractor who answers the question asked and addresses your shoulder.
Regarding your shoulder- I'd be interested in hearing where it 'hurts' and in which postures?
More information about your 'in class' symptoms would be helpful too.(in which postures does it bother you?) though I am not a doctor I have been teaching bikram yoga for almost 4 years- I am of the opinion that a modified bikram practice in the heat can be very helpful in releasing your pinch. (and helping out with many other injuries)
Blessings to All,
Dee
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| Oh, DEE!
I never thought of vaginal moisture. Surely he wouldn't be referring ... Oh, no.
I'd really like to hear where he came up with this advice.
Christine | |
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| Thanks, all, for the replies... didn't mean to get anyone in a tizzy. I understand your defense of the practice, and I agree 100 percent.
To Christine: To clear up confusion regarding my intake of water -- I consume AT LEAST four liters of water a day. That's minimum. As a singer and dancer (which I do nightly), I know the importance of hydration, and adhere to a consistent standard each day and have never experienced any problems in that area. (I didn't mean to imply that I only "replenish"... you can see why I, too, was confused about his loss of moisture comment.) While I've only practiced Bikram since 2000, I was very quick to tune in to my body's needs, most of which I was already aware of. No problem there. Thanks for the advice about which types of yoga I should seek; I've practiced some of them, but not all. Your help will assist in my search.
Dee: Funny, there aren't any poses that are significantly more painful than others. Lately, my range of motion is barely hindered and the pain is negligible, but my index finger has about 50 to 60 percent feeling. Apparently the muscle (trap or something else near cervical area) has calcified and is more like connective tissue than a healthy, pliable muscle. I probably will not seek chiropractic (hasn't helped so far), but I believe the muscle needs proper massage, at least.
I still have not seen the acupuncturist to follow up, but his remark was not one of a sexist nature. I probably will not agree with him when I learn what his comment was based on, but "sexist" is definitely the wrong label. Meanwhile, though, I'm just as confused and defensive as all of you.
Thanks again,
Katherine | |
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| If I were you, I would take the advice to seek out a good Iyengar teacher. Iyengar teachers can do wonders... To me because Bikram is a set series of postures, if something is aggravating your muscles then you're just going to aggravate it more. It might even be that the heat makes your muscles too pliable and you've damaged connective tissue?
I love my Iyengar classes and am always amazed at the way my teacher can fix what's hurting me. Many in my class have repetitive stress injuries and the teacher makes sure that each person is accommodated. I know that I will get some responses from the Bikram folks here but I was really shocked that in a Bikram class beginners/intermediates and advanced people are all in the same class and very few modifications are discussed. As a first time student I was told to "watch others and do what they do".... that is very strange coming out of an Iyengar class where we are taught so thoroughly. Perhaps the Bikram teacher I had was poor, but I was pretty shocked by the lack of preparation and lack of actual teaching. | |
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| I too was shocked at my first Bikram class Amy. I had no exposure to yoga before and the teacher is droning on naming postures in a tongue I never heard, telling me to wrap arms this way and that and pull on stuff I couldn't touch, etc., etc. I t was not conducive to learning and in fact, ticked my off cause I was paying for the thing. Occasionally I still get mad and have figured out that Bikram is not yoga--it's exercise, I enjoy it from that aspect so I'm OK with that.
Amy - 2004-03-21 8:19 AM
If I were you, I would take the advice to seek out a good Iyengar teacher. Iyengar teachers can do wonders... To me because Bikram is a set series of postures, if something is aggravating your muscles then you're just going to aggravate it more. It might even be that the heat makes your muscles too pliable and you've damaged connective tissue?
I love my Iyengar classes and am always amazed at the way my teacher can fix what's hurting me. Many in my class have repetitive stress injuries and the teacher makes sure that each person is accommodated. I know that I will get some responses from the Bikram folks here but I was really shocked that in a Bikram class beginners/intermediates and advanced people are all in the same class and very few modifications are discussed. As a first time student I was told to "watch others and do what they do".... that is very strange coming out of an Iyengar class where we are taught so thoroughly. Perhaps the Bikram teacher I had was poor, but I was pretty shocked by the lack of preparation and lack of actual teaching. | |
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| Whoa Nellie!
Katherine, Katherine, Katherine!
To clear up some confusion on your and any one else's part, I feel I must break this down:
I am not at all "defensive" about your acupuncturist's comment about Bikram. Not at all. I am neither defensive of, protective of, nor pro Bikram.
For the record, my opinion of Bikram is as follows:
1) It is far from beginning yoga; that it is a twisted and unhealthy introduction to yoga.
2)That it uses the body in horribly unsafe ways, that external heat, clenching muscles and locking joints is terribly unhealthy and potentially injurous.
3)That the teachers are (on the whole and all too frequently) terribly trained (if that word can be used at all for a memorized spiel), and are injuries waiting to be perpetrated upon unknowing students.
4)That the teachers are also sadly unaware of how dangerous they can be, and not encouraged to explore and learn more about the benefits and dangers of yoga used properly/improperly.
Unfortunately, the world thinks that because someone teaches yoga they actually know what the heck they're doing. This is not necessarily true, but moreso in a yoga style that makes crazy health claims and doesn't train the teachers in little more than the seconds involved in cajoling and screaming at their students to basically strain more. Yoga is not fitness in that each yoga pose involves the entire body, which makes it a very potent tool. Bikram does not recognize this, but panders to the media-induced hype of miracle weight loss and other crap basic exercise does to the normal couch-potato American. Yoga is so much more. I digress.
There. You have it. Before anyone gets their undies all tucked up, that's my opinion, my experience and doesn't necessarily represent the opinions of the mangement or anyone else in the entire world. If you read my opinion again, you'll also see I am not stating every Bikram teacher, but I am saying many to most. So don't bother giving me hell about it because at this point in time, I have no info or reason to influence this opinion.
To what I do object in this thread, is the generic, gender-based advice given to a medical patient by someone who hasn't offered the basis from which this advice stems. If you can get that out of him, perhaps this objection will fall by the wayside. Bad for women because of moisture loss is human, not female. But as many have discussed here, moisture is influance-able and hardly a reason to make such a blanket statement.
What I am is Pro Yoga. I can only hope people evolve past the fitness craze to find their lives might be changed by a yoga experience. Please note that although I practice Ashtanga daily, I also feel somewhat similarly (recently) about those teaching Ashtanga because it's a money maker. I don't discriminate. I am pro yoga and hope those who come to Ashtanga end up staying because it's so very much more than a work out. But those who do it because it's a fad, or they teach it because they make more money? I hope they move on. Soon.
So there you have it.
Let us know what the heck he meant?
Christine | |
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| Hi Katherine,
I'm a female acupuncturist and I've done lots of Bikram. Your acupuncturist is thinking Yin/Yang balance. Yin isn't so easily replaced by drinking water. And our Yin dries up as we age. Notice how juicy babies are and how wrinkled the elderly get. The amount of sweating in a Bikram class is way more than usual exercise. Not to mention if you're having your period you're losing a lot more of the Yin aspect of your body. Chinese medicine strives for balance - not too much, not too little. Everyone has their own parameters of balance. Interesting your acupuncturist thinks Bikram is worse for women and not men since women are more Yin than men (who are more Yang). FYI - men's health really deteriorates in their 50s & 60s if they've had an overabundance of sex in their life which totally destroys their Yin. Sweat, menstrual blood, semen - all very juicy (Yin). There is such a thing of too much of a good thing! I'd listen to your acupuncturist. By the way, in case you're wondering why I still do Bikram it's because I have an overabundance of "dampness" in my body so I think the "drying" aspect of Bikram will help. I've cut back on the amount of classes I take a week since I think any of the poses that involve the neck actually strain the neck instead of stretch the neck...ok, more info than you asked for...sorry...Good luck with your healing! Buzzy | |
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| Now buddy, that was pretty interesting.
I know extremely little of Chinese medicine, but given how it marries into Ayurveda and Yoga, I would like to.
Would you have a basic reading recommendation?
TIA!
Christine | |
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| Hello Christine ~
The book, "The Web That Has No Weaver" by Ted Kaptchuk is a good read on Chinese Medicine. Also, Acupuncture.com has interesting articles & links. Let me know if you come across any articles or studies on any type of yoga, especially Bikram, and Chinese Medicine/Acupuncture in your travels. I'll do the same!
Take good care ~ Buzzy | |
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| Thank you, Buizzy. I'll look for the title. My new neighbor is an Accupuncturist and we were talking about his licenses, etc., and it's very interesting how one learns about it in the United States.
Chinese medicine weaves its way throughout yoga. Not necessarily Bikram, since it's such a closed system, but most other systems seem to involve a little of it where Auyrveda falls down on the job. Not a lot written on the subject as companion practices, as there is with Yoga & Ayurveda, but I'd be interesed in such a study!
I'll keep my beady little eyes open, though.
Christine | |
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| Thanks, Buzzy! Excellent, specific information! I was hoping to hear from someone who had practical experience in both acupuncture and Bikram -- not to mention that you're also a woman -- and your post made a lot of sense to me. Your points will be a good beginning guide for me.
Namaste,
Katherine
How can I determine the "dampness" level in my body?
Edited by Chanteuse 2004-04-09 5:15 PM
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Bikram bad for women?